But you’re willfully ignoring other trends such as “did restricting gun ownership in Australia reduce mass murders?” or “what kinds of gun policies are most common in places with low murder rates?”
You’re cherry-picking stats from other countries when they support your cause, but when I cite stats from the very same places then you pull out the ** “that’s not a fair comparison because their country is different than ours!!!”** card. Then you finish it off by calling me “dense.” Not a very gracious debate style overall.
No, I am not ignoring it. What I am saying is that mass murders are comparatively rare, even in the US. If you are simply using the number of mass-murders as the sole criteria for an entire legal policy, you are seriously missing the big picture. You need to look at how murder in general, and violent crime in general change. For example, gun ownership in Russia is almost non-existent. So, mass shootings are unheard of (unless it is the government doing the shooting). However, their murder rate is MUCH higher than ours. So, since you are safe from mass shooting in Russia, are you safer there?
Umm, nope. The USA and Australia are similar, but NOT the same. We started from different places. There are way too many independent variables. However, as I stated, Australia passed laws similar to what many people want to pass here. It is fair to ask “what happened to the murder rate and violent crime rate in Australia after they passed these laws?” Explain to me why this question is not valid.
Science is based on experiments. You need an experiment and a control. Since we do not have two Americas and two Australias, we have to make do with what we have. I was looking at Australia as the experiment and USA as the control. Given that we have only one planet here, this is the best that I can come up with.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. YOU brought us Australia and Canada to cite trends that you believe support your argument, but any trends or statistics that don’t support your argument are invalid because “we’re not the same” and “there are way too many independent variables.”
Once again, you are either driving trollies me, or you really don’t understand. If you are to be believed, then statistics should match exactly from place to place based on the independent variable that you choose, ignoring all of the other variables. Using your logic, we could compare the murder rates of USA and Japan, notice that Japan has a lower murder rate, and deduce that the solution to crime is to force everybody to speak Japanese.
USA and Australia are NOT the same, but they are similar enough where we can draw some conclusions. Yet he have to be very careful what conclusion we can draw.
Wow, I cited the two most well known, along with TWO from this year, stating that they were very well known up here. Hardly deceptive. How about the two I mentioned from this year?
I’m not sure what deception you are accusing me of, I’m merely pointing out that Canada has its own issues with mass killings.
I agree, but I’d argue that you’re intentionally and selectively ignoring data in such a way that the only “valid” points of comparison are the ones which support your conclusions.
So, Mr. Rajncajn, for the record, openly displaying a Gun does not entail or confer upon the holder any particular set of beliefs, such that a reasonable person could suppose based on the flimsiest of evidence that the holder is intent on harm, as the Gun as object has and is the capability to kill.
I just want you on record as claiming you don’t understand the intent of the comic.
Here is you deception: you are using facts and logic. That apparently has nothing to do with this discussion, which is about anger, fear, and outrage. The details are unimportant.
[quote=“Kevin_Harrelson, post:78, topic:34180”]
has a VASTLY different population, somewhat different economy, somewhat different social structure, vastly different health care system, and even a different language in some parts.[/quote]
I am glad that you are certain that those have absolutely no impact on what the resulting trends would be, but unfortunately, there’s no evidence for that. The fact is, for all we know, if it had similar gun laws as in the US, the murder rate in Australia would be skyrocketing right now because of all those variables, whereas it happens to be lowering, just not as quickly as the US.
If you only compare two countries, yes, you can get a lot of spurious connections, but most people are pointing out that US gun laws are out of step with a large number countries that have lower murder rates, and a variety of different cultures, languages, economies, social structures.
If you’re going to dismiss comparisons to other countries as illegitimate because of all the independent variables, then at least do so consistently.
IF they were dressed as cowboys, chaps, spurs, 6 guns, cowboy hat, I’d probably be less anxious than if they were dressed in typical street clothes with a long gun of any kind. Although, it would be hilarious to see someone with a musket.
In 2014, Leaf Brands, creator of Astro Pops, acquired the trademark to Hydrox Cookies. Leaf Brands plans on keeping the original flavor and familiar 'crunch' that consumers came to love about the Hydrox. The new Hydrox cookie will be available in most supermarket chains as well as in specialty stores. Leaf Brands plans on releasing the new and improved Hydrox Cookie to the market at the end of 2014.
My point in bringing up Australia is simply this: they passed very strict gun control laws. Since then violent crime has gone UP while violent crime has gone DOWN in the USA. Murder rate in Australia went DOWN, but it went down MORE in the USA. Those are facts. Read into them what you will, but I don’t look at the violent crime rate going up and think “We should do what they are doing.”
If you stay away from areas with high poverty, you will be just fine. Safety-wise, American can hold it’s own with any country in the world, IF you stay away from high-crime areas.
A case in point is Chicago (google “Chicago Crime Gap”). Different zip codes in the same city. One is VERY safe, and one is VERY dangerous. Same city, same laws. The only difference is poverty. Stay in the touristy areas, and you will be just fine…
First, for the record. I’m not a Mr. Second, the intent of the comic isn’t really the issue here is it? The fact is, I disagreed with the portrayal of what I saw and that is my prerogative. I chose to comment, also my prerogative. Just because its a dissenting opinion doesn’t make it any less valid nor does it make it wrong.
