Fiscal balances
So what your saying is that the belief that Catalans can do it better themselves is the root of this, but then that’s the root of every independence movement. . .more or less
glad you asked. it reflects the total amount that each autonomous region gets BACK from central govermnent once each tax payer has paid their contribution. So in a nutshell, Catalunya pays 10BILLION more each year than it actually gets back. Andalucia on the other hand, contributes in the same way (per capita) and yet still recieves an extra 6B. long story short, catalans are fed up with suporting “lazy” andalucians…
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agreed, but that is unsustainable for you can always break it down further and further still. why shouldnt Madrid claim for independance. and BTW, the fact I agree money is always at the base of this, doesn’t mean I think its and admirable cause
The treaties that created the EU specifically state that borders are inviolate and that it is up to the member states to handle questions of sovereignty. The power to redraw borders has never been transferred to the EU because every member government jealously guards that prerogative. Imagine the outcry in the UK if the EU had even suggested her majesty’s government should hand over Northern Ireland to Ireland. The EU can speak up about human rights abuses but issues of sovereignty is something it stays clear off. You think the EU is afraid of separatists? No, it’s afraid of the inevitable nationalist backlash that comes from breaking treaty stipulations over a major hot button issue like sovereignty.
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Well Madrid is the capital after all 
I understand but if the economy is as shot as I’ve been led to believe then its only fair that those assets be used to help the unemployed, but then idk how much of that is actually invested back into the region
¯_(ツ)_/¯
what part of what I said are you disagreeing with? It’s in the agreement, they have the statutory right. Thank you for the citation agreeing with what I’ve said.
Did you add something to my comment in your mind, and that part wasn’t correct? Are you disagreeing with YOUR implications to what I’VE said?
Because I can’t help with that, if so.
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Take a look at local ballots. Useless, non-binding questions are a common feature on american ballots. I don’t know of any instances of secession votes, but I am sure they exist. Illinois had a ballot measure to impeach GWB back in 2006 (I think).
News flash, you can’t impeach the president via a ballot measure, much less on in a single state. Yet the secret service and the FBI didn’t show up with riot gear to prevent the vote. California has a never-ending series of non-binding ballot measures that they don’t have the authority to enforce.
Of course that kinda forgets the fact that, by design by our same “oppresive State”, Madrid, Barcelona and Euskadi are the industrial and economic engines of the country while all those “lazy” other places are, relatively speaking, wastelands in terms of stuff like jobs. Places where you have to pay pensions to the old and unemployment to the few young still there while taking it from, guess what… yea, the places where unemployment is not 50% or more!
I’m not sure I understand your point… Manchester, London and Birmingham are the industrial and economic engines of England (note I’m not taking the UK as a reference, but England). Are they justified if they want to split away? so what if London is the Capital of England and the UK? they could stil argue they want nothing of Brexit, and clamour for their own independance. I think it’s a case of Catalans being fed up not being able to change the system, nor it’s politicians. “If you cant change the politicians, change countries…” It may be less constructive - and up until now, less effective - whatever their reasons are, selfish or not, it doens’t seem to work.
My point is that apart of the one I already made elsewhere (that it is something for Catalonians to decide), there are good arguments, neutral arguments, and awful arguments, and “I’m sick of sustaining lazy *” is one of the latter. Most of us in those “lazy” regions have relatives in Catalonia because that is where the work is, while their grandparents and parents are still home and last I saw, we have the obligation to support them both in pensions and with healthcare.
You know, all that leftist stuff.
If that is the great reason for Catalonian independence, well, again, it is something that Catalonians have to decide but it would be a very petty and miserable reason for it. And one that would be very much not that fun to support by many people here, I gather.
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BTW, and IMHO
Bad reasons: “I dont want to pay for lazy X”
Good reasons: “I dont want to be part of a country where they insult my heritage and my language daily, and when I want to see if we all agree on getting out, they send me riot police to beat me while idiot fascists cheer on the GC”
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Theres a single sentence in the article that says the US constitution overrides any statutory right that Texas might give itself to do this.
that really makes it an awful example of what it was being used for then, huh?
Context, it can make you wrong even when factually correct.
Google complies with requests from State agencies all the time, and the standard for how they decide is basically “if we feel like it”.
https://support.google.com/transparencyreport/answer/7381738?hl=en
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Any nation that simply acquiesced to the wishes of its citizens to succeed, would soon vanish.
And that would be a problem why? It seems like you are simply recapitulating the fact that Spain’s national government is interested in a unified Spain at the expense of democracy.
But I like your point about turning the lens on ourselves (am American, assuming you are also).
I think it was a Spanish (or perhaps Argentine) writer who suggested, after the government had complained about what the public were doing, that the government should dissolve the electorate and appoint another one.
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This page seems to refer specifically for request for data. Those I was aware of. But this instance in Catalan is the first time I have heard of a state order to yank somebody’s app. Although I would not be surprised if it has happened before.
Most people outside of Spain may not understand what those numbers mean, as countries never publish these, since it is very difficult to assign what is local and what is national, so the numbers can be misleading. How does one assign the expense of high speed train that joins major cities across less well-off regions?
Yes, people that make more money pay more taxes. Are we denying that basic principle of social equality here? And yes, Catalonia does have people that pay more taxes than the country’s average, as do Madrid and the Balearic Islands, so naturally, those fiscal balances are negative. I challenge you to find a country where that does not apply.
What’s more, Barcelona itself suffers from a greater fiscal imbalance, since the province’s per capita GDP is significantly higher that the rest of the Catalan provinces. So, assuming fiscal imbalances are “robbbing”, the right phrase would be "Spain (including the rest of Catalonia) is robbing Madrid, the Balearic Islands and Barcelona. And Madrid’s imbalance is by far the largest as per official numbers.
In a hypothetical independent Catalonia, would Barcelona break universal wealth re-distribution principles and get 100% of their taxes back or “robbing” would happen?
The Catalan government pressed the Spanish government to publish these fiscal balances. Has Catalonia published their own regional balances? Nope (do as I say…), so there are no official numbers, but estimations (http://files.convivenciacivica.org/Informe%20Las%20balanzas%20fiscales%20dentro%20de%20Cataluña.pdf), which say that Barcelona is responsible for 82,3% of income but only gets 64.9% back, an imbalance of 17,4%
The fiscal imbalance between Catalonia and the rest of Spain translates to around 4-5%, which seems fair social redistribution and is in line with democratic countries would do. So if a fiscal imbalance of 4-5% means “Spain is robbing Catalonia”, What would a 17% imbalance between Barcelona and the other 3 Catalan provinces be, sheer plunder?
And, could the people of Barcelona (who speak more Castillian that Catalan) in a hypothetical Catalonia be able to unilaterally declare independence from the rest of Catalonia because of the large fiscal imbalance? No, because the constitution of Catalonia (full text at http://www.elnacional.cat/es/politica/documento-texto-integro-ley-transitoriedad-juridica-fundacional-republica_186198_102.html) does not recognize its own regions right to self-determination. In fact, L’Aran, with their own independentist movement and language, is specifically stated to maintain their current status. So they claim demand something that they themselves would not provide. Again, do as I say, not as I do.
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That is just not the case. The dictatorship would repress any INDIVIDUALS opposing it, but that was the case for all, whether communist, socialist or whatever may be.
And the wikipedia article does not say otherwise. Terrorist band ETA (that has killed over 820 people so far), started in 1959, of the torture of terrorists mentioned in the article happened in the 60s.
Overall there are very little parallelisms between the two cases. There was a small degree of only Catalan terrorism (5 dead) that went into the 90s.
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