Trophy hunting is "hunting" the way that Big Thunder Mountain is a "train ride"


#21

I can’t be absolutely sure. But the evidence seems to point to the idea that they use these:

Because they’re insecure and compensating for these:


#22

The top one- on Lions- yeah. That’s a perfect analogy.

Not to dirty the topic, but the top cartridge is only something I’d use on Rhino. If I actually was the kind of asshole with a deathwish that hunts rhino. That cartridge is either for one of those TREX 700esque cartoon calibers that noone actually hunts with, or only used for rhino, maybe elephant. Something where absolute deep penetration is a must.

Then again, for that last part, the bottom one works just as well. But different species fall prey to that caliber.

I KEEED :smile:


#23

People do die and get injured on thunder mountain…
Disney Takes Blame for Thunder Mountain Death

edit: to enbetter link


#24

It’s a Nitro 700 Express round. It’s pretty much the largest bullet fired from a man-portable rifle. And I would be hesitant to even fire it at a paper target at the range for fear of breaking my clavicle.

It’s commercially produced, not a wildcat round. It’s meant for Rhinos and Elephants, but there’s also a few South African-made antimateriel rifles chambered for it that are designed to fire explosive rounds.


#25

The U.S. is interesting in that a lot of the outdoor sports that usually are the purvey of the upper, or at least middle class (hunting, fishing, etc.) the government has always tried to make it just as easy for the lower class to participate, and not just a sport for the Aristocracy as in times past. For good reason, too, there are parts of the country where hunting and fishing is still how some families put a lot of food on the table. (I don’t have to look far for this; there are a lot of immigrant families near me that take home a lot of fish from the local waters.)

As far as the DNR is concerned, they don’t necessarily care what you do with the animal, as long as you’ve killed it according to their rules. I am the first to agree, I think the trophy hunters are trying to prove something, but I don’t think a problem, per se. Overall, the DNR still wants people to hunt and fish, just to do so legally because that funds their conservation efforts. (You can argue about the effectiveness about those efforts, but that’s a separate issue; my own state, I think the DNR is adequately funded, and has some great programs. Also, some really crappy programs…)

Poachers are the larger issue, IMO, even domestically. Fix the poaching, fix the conservation efforts that aren’t working. Worry about people’s personal shortcomings later on.


#26

Wow. I even guessed the random size right- 700. And what it was designed for.

And people say I know nothing about guns. Pfft.

Those things have only one purpose- to break the arms of rich foreign assholes that seem to have
countless youtube videos firing them. They have no purpose in anything else.


#27

They’re pretty good at obliterating your money from the economy. A double-barreled Nitro 700 chambered rifle can easily cost $60,000 USD, and you buy the bullets from the factory one at a time for about $100.


#28

It’s a Nitro Express 700.

It’s made in the UK, $100 a round with 1000 gr bullet at 2000fps and 8900 ft-lb of energy. While huge, it is slower than other big bullets.

Compared to a military .50 cal BMG which has a a 700 gr bullet at nearly 3000fps and delivers nearly 14000 ft-lb of energy. (though there are hotter loads you can make).

Compare that with the round the “assault riffle” AR-15 5.56mm which has a 55gr-77gr. A 62gr bullet has 3100fps and only 1300 ft-lb of energy.


#29

I’d appreciate it if the Texas Department of Public Safety would send an officer to see if this dentist shows the proper respect.


#30

let’s keep talking about bullets. so much easier than talking about trophy “hunting.”


#31

I eat meat. I am lazy; I don’t kill it myself. I don’t even get near the killing process. I think I’m much more of a coward than this guy. I think that humans are more important than animals, and that Dubya was a much bigger coward by sending so many citizens to their deaths.


#32

Reminds me of the infamous .577 Tyrannosaur. That also has rich assholes gettin’ shook real good.


#33

Also, you said the thing about overpopulation last time this topic came up, and it wasn’t true then and it isn’t true now. Lions are not deer. They are not overpopulated. They are a protected endangered species, which is pretty much the opposite of overpopulation.

Even if you think hunting is fine, surely you won’t defend hunting endangered species?


#34

Sadly I suspect you have no chance of being wrong.


#35

Wait.

You have a fridge?


#36

From what I understand, the land will only support so many animals. The population all over is down, but in the specific parks they can a population problem. There is a reason they cull lions and others. I admit I don’t know all the specific for every country out there, but I have read several things through the years about hunting in Africa in general. Lions, elephants, water buffalo and others DO wander out of the protected lands when it gets too crowded or if they are pushed out by dominant animals because they can keep rather large territories (up to 100 square miles). Lions get out, eat a cow, and then the local farmer puts poison on the carcass and when the lion returns to finish eating it is poisoned and dies.

Taking out an older non-reproducing male allows more territory and resources for the females, cubs, and reproducing males. As I understand there is a balance involved. The people who run the parks are in it for long term conservation. Now most of what I read was in Kenya, which probably has it’s shit together better than Zimbabwe. But there is a reason the parks allow sanctioned hunts, and at the same time have to defend against poachers selling balls to China, and locals killing animals because they are screwing with their crops/live stock. It is a complex issue.

But my point is - everyone seems quick to demonize or surmise how well endowed a “trophy hunter” is. I don’t think that broad brush is fair. Hunting and conservation go hand in hand. In the US it has lead to increased amounts of game everywhere.
But it’s hard to defend it when the specific person who sparked this fire went outside the rules. Of course condemning a whole groups for the misdeeds of a few is human nature.


#37

Surprised that I haven’t seen more on this fellow…
2nd US Doctor Accused of Illegally Killing Lion in Zimbabwe - ABC News
Apparently he has taken out a lot of elephants in the past – when I saw a news report on him, they had photos next to every large mammal species in Africa (hippo, elephants, etc)

I also have seen very little on our Happy Neighborhood Dentist wanting to kill an elephant on his trip, but being disappointed in the size of the ones offered to him.


#38

This is entirely due to the fact that a conservation organization was put in charge of regulating hunting and fishing, and the fact that most hunters are not poachers here (the legal barrier to entry is pretty low). I don’t think this reflects in any way on what kind of person the average trophy hunter is.

I do have some thoughts on what type of people they tend to be, but my sample size is small. So that’s really unfair.

Personally, I’m not against taking a trophy of some sort if it’s a by product of trying to hunt for the meat. Antlers, for example, would be fine. Or, mounting a fish that I didn’t really want to eat, but who died in the process of catching and releasing (happens sometimes, even if you’re careful).


#39

For sure I am in support of hunting laws. Conservation programs helped too. But there are also lots of organization like Ducks Unlimited, Quail Unlimited, etc that worked with State and Federal Conservation programs to protect and increase habitats for game.


#40

A few responses to your points

The money is paid to the hunt organiser, but the majority goes to the Governmnent, which in turn will allocate funds in its next budget as it sees fit. AFAIK there is no direct transfer of funds to be used solely for conservation in many countries, including Zimbabwe.

This is true, but only helpful when edible meat is hunted. Big cats don’t fall into that category. Most carnivores don’t.

This is true in this particular park, but there are reserves all over the world that are severely dwindling due to to opposite problem; human population becomes overcrowded and the humans spread out and run into local animals, then poison the livestock to clear the land.