Ah well, as the German general said to Chuikov on 1st. May 1945, “This is a great day for both our countries”. And Chuikov replied “For us it is a great day. For you over there, I am not so sure.”
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I personally favored Clinton for various reasons, but also electability - and boy, that blew up in my face. Could Sanders have done worse? We’ll never know.
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The fault of the democrats is they actually believed in America having a better nature.
No no no, you were sort of vaguely doing okay up to here but then you nominated Hillary by outright fraud, you can’t say that.
Maybe Bernie or Elizabeth would have failed worse, but you can’t say anything about ‘better nature’ where the Clinton Apparatus is involved.
And hell yes, Biden would have won this by a historic landslide. Which is why Clinton worked so hard to kneecap him behind the scenes, successfully.
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Ah yes, the delusional Sanders contingent weighs in.
And hell yes, Biden would have won this by a historic landslide.
This might be correct. We’ve no real idea. Its one thing to cheer Biden in his mirror sunglasses, driving a sports car, speaking truth when nothing was on the line. Its another thing to have Biden wage a campaign for 14 months: would the Bidenistic gaffes he produced along the way allow him to remain a viable candidate? [An ironic idea given that Trump produced a good 40-50 gaffes, any one of which wouldve sunk a traditional candidate.]
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And once again: the only people being relentlessly mocked were the ones warning that the emperor had no clothe… by people like you who manufactured the reverse lie in order to double-down on righteous feelings of persecution.
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Oh yes, I’m delusional.
OH, what’s that? What’s that I hear? It’s the sound of your apparatchik candidate losing HARD, like we’ve been warning you for over a year and you going ‘NAH NAH IT’S COOL, TRUST US, SHE’S COOL’ and you not learning a goddamn thing even now. Yeah, I’m the delusional one.
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Its so weird that the delusional left hurts and cripples the democrats and the delusional right is the base of the republicans and gets their candidate elected.
Good heavens. Hillary ran a campaign that was oppositional to Bernie-- and there are emails to that effect!
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I agree completely, I don’t think reasoning in left/right terms is useful nor it is choosing a candidate who smells of establishment (which I think is a good word for what you were getting at).
I think the central point is to understand what people want and try to address that without preconceptions and with a message of hope and energy, screw the labels. Clinton I won because he looked like a younger and more hopeful guy than Bush I. A lot of Trump voters were Obama voters; did they become racists and sexists over 8 years? Of course not - but they thought he was more likely to “fix” their life than the other guy, and now thought HRC was less likely to do that than Trump. A lot of people who voted for Obama didn’t vote for Clinton - why? Because he offered hope and she didn’t. Gotta start from that.
But I’m sure party leaders will start from dropping their defending of pro-choice positions, or something equally crazy and disconnected.
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Okay, so you’re going full Venezuela here and refusing to learn anything. Outside Saboteurs are to blame for all your problems.
I’m in California and my electoral vote went to Hillary. I didn’t hurt or cripple you at alllll o/~ You did.
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Just curious, but how do you “address” people who hate gays, hate Mexicans, hate muslims. (And theyre just getting going with their hate train.)
I mean, these people want to ban gay marriage, send all Mexicans to Mexico, ban Islam(?) and or ban niqabs(?) How do you “address” a Klan rally?
Trump supporters are children. Scared, racist children.
Yeah, it would be great if there was some Great White Father figure, to comfort them [who happened to be a liberal Democrat], who could “trick” them into doing the right thing and not be scared, racist, stupid. (Eg, Franklin Roosevelt) We just didnt have that candidate for them this time.
Plus, Republicans are proven assholes. They spent 8 years being an asshole to Obama. McConnells final Fuck You to Obama denied him a SCOTUS nominee that Republicans never wouldve tolerated if the shoe were on the other foot. But Democrats took it-- because Democrats have never been able to fight dirty the way Republicans fight dirty.
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The trouble with passive/non-violent resistance is that most of the time it fails: look at the falun gong of the people’s republic of china, or even the Tibetans. Most of them are dead now.
For a less lethal example, check out the #blacklivesmatter movement; police shootings are up, and protests now get attacked by riot cops regardless of disposition.
Listen to the Che, bro. Revolutions cannot live without teeth.
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And more to the point: you don’t need to attract those people.
The evidence so far is suggesting that a significant part of Trump’s win relied upon attracting non-voters to the polls. In other words, the right-wing version of the people that Bernie would have drawn.
Half of the population don’t/can’t vote, half of the voters are Democrats, a third of the GOP are unwilling Trumpkins. The proportion of the population who support Trump is less than 25%; the proportion who don’t/can’t vote is 50%. Do the math.
As Trump has shown, if you can activate the disaffected non-voters in America, you don’t have to reach out to the other side’s policy goals.
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… as long as you are every awful stereotype Republicans have about Democrats you are going to keep losing, or at least it’s going to be terribly close.
If you can’t just kill them all (sorry, you can’t, option #1 is off the table), you address them by figuring out what’s making them afraid, you acknowledge this, and then you show them how you can make it better. This is a proven, very successful negotiating technique I’ve used repeatedly, and it’s pretty easy because all you have to do is engage your atrophied mirror neurons and try to see it from their side. It’s also honest because you do see their side even if you ultimately disagree.
They’re afraid, many of their fears are legitimate (even if naughty or they don’t even fully know what they are, like ‘I’ll lose my white privilege’), and they just need some reassurance and a clear path where they’re not completely discarded.
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People are not mono-dimensional. The anti-Muslim guy has a family, goes to church, is worried about his job, doesn’t take enough vacation, pays a lot in insurance, works his ass off and doesn’t think other people should get an easier ride, likes barbecues and beer. You talk to him about the other elements of his life and how you’re going to help.
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I dont really disagree with you. Democrats need to somehow appeal to the Idiot Class of America. They need to trick them into doing the right thing (that is, to not being racist, ignorant, xenophobic, sanctimoniously and hatefully Christian, fearful, chauvinistic). FDR and Kennedy did this, I think. Looking back, I really have no idea how a nation that elects Trump ever elected Obama in the first place (twice!)
The South just fucks us. They always fuck us. They’ve been fucking us with their stupidity for the last 150 years. We kind of lost our nation when we didnt reeducate the South after the Civil War the same way we de-Nazified Germany after WW2. [Which is slightly unfair: the rural areas of Pennsylvania are the “virtual” South.]
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To be fair though, what screwed Clinton over were mostly northern states this times, like PA and WI.
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If you think Germany got effectively de-nazified after WW2, you’re out of your mind. One half said the problem was all the other half’s problem, and built a wall; the other side was riddled with them from day one.
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It goes back to the Bar Test. Can Redneck Bill tell Redneck Pete he’s voting for Candidate X. That’s how George W Bush won. Hell yes, Bill can tell Pete he’s voting for W! (Actually, that’s how the first Geo Bush won too-- by killing the “Wimp” Geo Bush and being the Willy Horton-toting fearmongering Bush.)
Bill likes that Trump grabbed women by the pussy. Bill certainly can’t brag to Pete that he’s voting for a pussy.
I still dont know how this theory adapts to Bill telling Pete he voted for a Negro, though. How did Obama win North Carolina?
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though this was kind of a fig leaf, take the ministry of justice: in 1966 nearly two third of the department managers were former NSDAP members. The CIA-controlled “Organisation Gehlen” (direct successor of a Third Reich intelligence service, direct precursor of the current foreign intelligence service BND) consisted (effectively) only of Nazi personnel and focused on evil commies as raison d’être
blargh, too slow. @AnonyMouse got to this point faster
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They did fuck. They were as chauvinistic, sexist and nationalistic as the worst of them. But they said they’d fight for the little man.
Case in point: the South went red post-LBJ, so has nothing to do with JFK and certainly nothing with FDR.
Don’t fight the culture war, you can’t win it. Fight the class one, and use it as leverage to win the others. That’s how the MLK win came along - a Dem majority built on economic issues spent some time on “this other little topic here”.
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