Yes, and many of of his voters (emphasis since you have trouble distinguishing “many” from “all”) think they’re owed more because they’re white. Skin colour is not a basis on which anyone is owed anything.
Serious people look for serious solutions to their problems. These are not serious people. They want union wages and benefits without evil unions, reasonable housing prices without evil rent controls, and fewer kids on opiates while still maintaining the failed War on Drugs (AKA War on Black People). This sort of magical thinking is the hallmark of suckers, so it’s unsurprising they turned to a confidence artist.
That’s how it is in this part of Maryland. Even the local elections are partisan, so the real election for county executive, sheriff, etc. occurs during the Democratic primary election. If you’re unaffiliated (like I was) then your primary ballot will only have a couple of referenda; the general election might as well have a single candidate for a particular office given the high unlikelihood that a non-Democrat might win (if and when there’s an opposing candidate). I finally registered as a Democrat this year just so I could vote for Bernie in the primary.
ETA:
Well, there was the mechanism of using the vote to (if nothing else) ensure who would (or would not) be nominated to the Supreme Court. But here we are.
I’ve grown to accept racist dog-whistle pandering from the Right ever since Reagan’s speech in Philadelphia Mississippi. Hell, Trump has brought those dog whistles down to frequencies humans can hear.
The real problem, and the one that has me shitting my pants right now, is what happens when the left starts to pander to these same people while continuing to ignore their true progressive base. Because you know they will. And everyone here who called me crazy for thinking there can theoretically be a Democratic Trump can just wait a while.
Maybe its my age. Im not as sharp as I used to be. But I was just suggesting that if Trumps mesage was so clearly a racist to all observers, then it would be tough to find victims of racism who would support it. Legal immigrants are probably the most directly affected by policies which encourage illegal immigration. I met a number of Trump supporting blacks and “latinos”.
Once again, I think the key to Trumps victory was the decline in the standard of living of working class Americans of all races. I think the HRC platform didnt address it directly enough cos at its core it was neo-liberal and necessarily so because she built a coalition of those who have benefited from neo-liberal economic policies and minorities.
Trump isnt necessarily a solution to those groups problems but they might think he was - and indeed an aggressive use of fiscal policy for infrastructure projects would benefit Trumps constituency.
Either way, I just think its nonsense to reach into the minds of people you don’t understand and say they voted out of racism when their self-interest is a perfectly reasonable explanation. And I dont think Im racist but I cant stand neo-liberalism. If I had voted for Jill Stein in Manhattan its just silly to say I did so out of racism or sexism.
Just like the Blairites in the UK, the loyal Part Democrats are going to try to be Republican Lite by embracing policies like racism and still get stomped while empowering their opponents. They can’t be allowed to make the decision.
Everyone is angry. They talk about it among themselves, further demonize the other side, and this is what you get. A cesspool of name calling and finger pointing and broad generalizations, with both sides willing to choke down a chocolate bar covered in shit if it means the other side doesn’t get any chocolate.
I have seen this posted several times in the last few days:
Now more than ever, we all need to watch this video. I set it up at the most important part, IMHO, but one should watch the whole thing. It is clearly what is happening on both sides. We need to find some common ground here and fast.
And finally, as for blame - blame Apathy - especially among Democrats. Lowest voter turn out since 2004? Really?
[quote=“Nobby_Stiles, post:974, topic:89005, full:true”]
Maybe its my age. Im not as sharp as I used to be.[/quote]
Okie dokie.
It’s clearly racist to all informed observers. Some of those informed observers (including a relative handful from racial minorities and a certain kind of ladder-pulling immigrant) are OK with the racism.
I don’t see anyone here claiming that being critical of neoliberalism (which I certainly am) somehow implies one is also racist.
Im glad to say I am not culpable for the death of 1mn innocents in Iraq. However you apparently are since you voted for someone who supported that policy. Similarly so with respect to Libya. Some of the racists you speak of show no other sign of racism. They are black or latina. They treat people of all races equally. But cos they voted for a man you say (and you may well have excellent evidence) is a racist they must be racist too?
You might be right but I doubt it. I think your definition of racism is silly.
Yeah, and thats wise. I too had family which left Poland in a hurry in 1934. I though their decision wise and Im glad they did cos I doubt I would be here otherwise. However they were certainly not Polish patriots.
To be clear, Im not an American patriot. But your decision would somewhat undermine your ability to argue that you are thinking of the good of all Americans. Trust me, I will get rounded up by the Trumpians well before you. Trust me when I say also that I had contingency plans in place long ago. Jews in the US have not experienced the kind of bullshit blacks have experienced. But recent events havnt contributed to an uptick of concern on my part.
Im not sure where I would go if I did leave. Mexico? The UK, The West Indies?
But feel free to do what you think is best for you and yours. Just don’t be surprised when others do too. I just think you are being willfully blind if you cant see what is motivating their choices. And like in most cases, their concerns are not entirely without merit.
A friend of mine pointed out elsewhere how Obama beat Romney in Michigan by 16 percent. I think you could blame third-party (and non-) voters for that 1% this time, but I don’t think you can’t blame them for the other 15 percent that ought to have been in the bag.
Same with Gore failing to carry his own home state in 2000. He’d have won outright with that.
Feel free to make up what you think I am saying and then condemn me and be as rude to me as you like. I wouldnt want to deny you the joy of it. Also I do like the way you self-define as an informed observer. You are right. I dont fit your definition of an informed observer. There might however be other definitions.
I have read a few of your posts. I have found them generally erudite and well informed. However I thought you unnecessarily rude on this occasion. I suspect it was your intention. I don’t have to follow you down this path.
You obviously feel passionately. However I still disagree. I have already explained why but let me clarify for you one last time.
I dont think 59 million americans who voted for Trump are all racist. Or if that is the definition of racism then it is not very useful one.
I thought the implicit message that they aren’t really our people was my point. The Trump supporters I know probably aren’t a fair representation, but they seem to have a very different attitude in person with the small circle of people from marginalised groups that they know, from their political idea of those groups in general. While some people from both sides will see the dogwhistles for what they are, others will accept the seemingly reasonable superficial message and won’t have any problem with the people from their social circle. It’s the others that are the problem.
[quote=“Nobby_Stiles, post:980, topic:89005, full:true”]
Feel free to make up what you think I am saying and then condemn me and be as rude to me as you like.[/quote]
What? Where did I make up anything you were saying in that comment?
[quote=“Nobby_Stiles, post:980, topic:89005, full:true”]
I dont think 59 million americans who voted for Trump are all racist.[/quote]
Nor do I. I said exactly the opposite. Your concern about old age impairing your reading comprehension abilities may be justified.
Actually on reflection I took that personally - “ladder pulling” immigrant, when I had no right to do so. So I am probably mistaken. You probably werent being deliberately rude and were instead just responding to my argument.
Yup, this is Gore Mark II: Dem establishment proposing more of the same, and brittle Dem voters saying “why bother then?”. One would think that same family had learnt that lesson.
They’re members of my own family. Some of them have been honest enough to say, in the open, that they believe white people are just better at things like governance and fighting crime, but those black people, boy are they great at sports. It’s the soft, underlying racism of the US and it’s disgusting to behold.
