Trump's anti-education Education Secretary owes millions in election fraud fines

I agree with the first one.
I have no idea what Trump wants to do with public education money. He can’t do worse with it than school districts have already done.
There is zero evidence that charter schools are more “poorly regulated” than public schools.

That said, my greatest concern is that even at the best-funded, highest achieving schools in the U.S., large portions of the student body are miserable and not learning nearly as much as they could be. This charter school/public school debate, is, for me, a distraction from the much more important fact that coercive, arbitrary curricula is a demonstrably bad formula for a positive learning experience.

That’s a claim I think we can both dismiss out of hand. You cannot know that there is zero proof. You only know that you aren’t aware of any - not the same thing.

I’m thinking that betting Trump “can’t do worse at X than Y” is a losing bet. Trump may bankrupt the entire country. His choice of Education Secretary is proof that when it comes to doing worse, Trump is over qualified.

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Thoughts and feelings are the last thing I am interested in using to guide public policy.

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If we all sat down at a craps table and started betting, it’d be pretty odd if one of us didn’t walk away a winner. That hardly changes the fact that the house always wins. I don’t think anyone here is arguing that a system that is designed to produce winners and losers doesn’t produce winners.

Based on the evidence presented by @emo_pinata, though, it’s pretty safe to say that poor kids who are allowed to enter lotteries to get into charter schools would be just as well off or better off if they could enter a lottery to get into a normal school that was run up to the standard of the schools of their wealthy neighbours. That is, if all schools were actually treated as important, if “no child left behind” hadn’t been a policy specifically dedicated to leaving children behind, then kids would be better off.

Of course people who won the “your kid gets to go to a decent school” lottery are thankful. What the hell kind of lottery is that to be running in a first world nation?

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Montessori? Bob Ross?

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How about anecdotal data and a “success story” while ignoring all the silent failures of the system?

May I also interest you in some “heh, liberals aren’t very liberal, they probably hate poors and trans persons” rhetoric?

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But that’s not evidence, because of reasons.

May I interest you in another anecdote that may or may not be someone I actually know versus another “win story” I read off another internet forum?

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Fair enough. It was offered in the same way one might assert that “there is zero evidence that ghosts exist,” but it would have been more constructive to ask for evidence, instead of merely asserting that it doesn’t exist.

Also, fair enough. But there are school districts all over the country which are already bankrupt due to corruption and mismanagement. Could Trump fuck them up even more? I don’t know how, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t do it.

Uhm, yeah. By starving them even more. It’s pretty easy to turn a district from marginal to disaster when they are living on the edge. And he can starve districts that are working of students and funds by making vouchers a thing. To me, there is no question that Trump can and will make public schools worse off by creating a flaky, corruption prone, un-accountable system of private schools who will take the money and run. Look no further than the disaster of for profit vocational schools in the US that take government student loan money and turn it into massive profits without teaching their paying students skills that will actually land them the promised jobs.

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Is this supposed to be “evidence” that charter schools are worse than public schools? You might as well post a video from Answers in Genesis to provide evidence for a global flood. If you have evidence, not comedy, that demonstrates that charter schools are generally worse than public schools, please provide it.

More Detroit public school principals have been charged with crimes in 2016 than all the charter school CEOs mentioned in that video. That’s just Detroit.

If you want to ask the reasonable question of whether abuses in charter schools cancel out all the good charter schools have done for kids and families, then you have to apply the same standard to public schools.

There’s not a single problem with charter schools in that John Oliver piece that isn’t a problem with public schools, on a much, much larger scale. And the specific problems with the charter schools exist because of how they’re allowed to operate in those particular districts.

Condemning the idea of charter schools because of bad actors is no different from condemning the idea of public schools because of bad actors.

That said, I’m going on vacation. Happy Holidays!

Vouchers have worked in Sweden for 25 years. I wouldn’t mind seeing small experiments here, because I think poor families deserve choices in education. I think your concerns about that turning into what the for-profit colleges turned into are valid. But that’s as much about competent regulation as it is about greed, which is rampant in both private and public sectors.

Public schools do this all the time. It’s why some of the very worst school districts in the country have the highest per-pupil spending rates in the world. Public entities are just as prone to corruption as private ones.

Okay, I’m going on vacation. Happy Holidays and stay skeptical!

As with healthcare, I don’t get the preference from some quarters for “choice in” over “access to good”.

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You have to consider this in context. To what degree do you think Trump and his cabinet of kleptocratic cronies favor competent regulation? The GOP, including establishment types like Newt Gingrich, want the government torn down to make way for un-regulated capitalism. There is nothing about selecting Betsy DeVos for Secretary of Education that suggests an interest in “competent regulation” of schools, private or public.

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Are there a lot of public schools going out of business and closing mid-semester?

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If aikimo has their way.

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I mean, it’s not like John Oliver’s segment quotes local investigative news reports or cites federal and state government audits or anything.

First of all, when was the last time a public school suddenly shut down in the middle of the year without warning or recourse? (Aside from in Kansas, where Republican leadership has succeeded in “starving the beast” so severely that they can’t afford to keep schools open, in violation of state law.)

Second, if you want to talk about evidence, let’s start with you backing up your claim that the worst-performing public schools spend the most money per student. Also, average spending per student may be higher in the US than it is in other countries (another claim you’ve made without proof, but I’ll go with you on this), but that doesn’t mean that funding is being evenly distributed; minority-majority districts routinely struggle to even buy textbooks and basic school supplies for their students, while more affluent districts are putting iPads and MacBooks on every desk. Detroit’s system is a dilapidated disaster thanks to ongoing funding shortfalls that have resulted in students going to school in buildings that should literally be condemned.

There are a lot of problems with the education system in this country. Nobody is disputing that. Hell, as the son of a 5th grade teacher I know full well how fucked up things can get. Bad teachers, bad administrators, bad curriculum mandates, and bad policies all exist, and all need to be addressed. However, you don’t fix something that’s broken by putting a person dedicated to its destruction in charge of fixing it. We need to address inequalities in spending between schools, reduce the reliance on easily-gamed and poorly-constructed standardized tests, and stop punishing poorly-performing schools by taking away the funding they need to improve. We need to do a better job teaching children basic critical thinking skills so we stop electing Donald Trumps as president. DeVos will not push for any of those things, though. To her - and to you, apparently - the public education system is an irredeemable disaster that should just be scrapped and replaced with (much more expensive) private enterprises. And if that means we have to raffle off children’s access to a good education, then so be it.

Here’s the thing: parents already have a choice to send their child to a private school. I went to a private high school that cost thousands of dollars a year. That didn’t excuse my parents from having to pay taxes that fund the public system, nor did they ever feel like it should. Those taxes aren’t there to cover educating your child, they’re there to pay for educating everyone’s children, because an educated society is a critical national asset. Or, as John Green puts it:

[Y]ou need to remember that school is not about you! School doesn’t exist for your benefit, or for the benefit of your parents. Schools exist for the benefit of me. The reason I pay taxes for schools, even though I don’t have a kid in school, is that I am better off in a well-educated world.

Public education isn’t a charity project. I pay for your schools because I want you to grow up and make my life better. I want you to to make me beautiful books that will bring me pleasure and consolation. I want you to make me cooler cars for me to drive, and drugs so that I can live a longer, healthier life. I’m paying for your education in the hopes that you’ll invent a microwave pizza with actually crispy crust, and that you’ll spread the availability of the internet so that I can get more YouTube views in Zambia.

Your education isn’t just about you, your nation is making an investment in you because they believe that you are worth it.

Taking money out of the public school system by subsidizing a parent’s decision to send their kid to a private school is just another example of the “I got mine, fuck you” attitude that robs from the public good for the sake of personal enrichment, to the ultimate detriment of us all. But sure, have a happy holiday.

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:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: Nice!

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The big secret is that the extra cost per pupil is for school supplies and lunches for poor students.

BTW, since this is all public record. Let’s see how the typical rich school district (Bloomfield Hills, literally anyone from Detroit will back this up) spends versus Detroit City:

And Pontiac:

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