Hold on a minute here and look at the bigger picture … It’s how Syria started. It’s the fate of countries that oppose the Western banking cartel. The elected Govt of Ukraine recently opted out of the EU(/USA) trade deal and into Russia(/China) - away from the US petro-dollar and towards the soon to be gold backed Yuan. Paff ! Now they have a full blown “opposition” backlash on their hands coordinated with the western press. Keep in mind the Ukraine has a gang of armed “opposition” there and is being undercut just like Syria is - it’s just the start
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This seems like a vastly complex problem. I’m not sure who has the right answers since the American mass media seems to continuously distort the issues on the Ukraine. Well, at least according to Stephen Cohen.
Related:
Stephen Cohen: The American Press Is Wrong About Ukraine:
Stephen Cohen: We Are Promoting ‘Anti-Democratic Action’ in Ukraine:
more:
Cohen seems to be an apologist for the regime which is already considered illegitimate for the imprisonment of Tymoshenko on trumped up charges. Cohen’s argument seems to be that Slavs are obliged to stick together even when Russia under Putin is a proto-Fascist state. Which is utter nonsense. Ukraine does mean ‘border’ but it got its name as the border of Poland, not Russia.
The protestors are against any treaty with Russia. The President needs cash and the EU won’t give any as long as he is locking up his political opponents on trumped up charges.
The Yushchenko government was not and has never been democratically elected. Yushchenko changed the election law between the first and second round of voting, a move that was obviously designed to enable vote fraud.
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The State of New Jersey has a population of 8.9 million and annual budget of $23 billion. that is a pretty significant size even if it isn’t a sovereign state. It is a domestic story rather than foreign.
The wider significance of the affair is that it has ended the Presidential campaign of the last remaining Republican in a major elected office who is on the left-ish wing of the party. It has also unearthed a series of similar claims which look set to lead to impeachment of Christie and his Lt Governor shortly after the 2014 mid-term elections (the earliest date that an impeachment process can begin).
What is rather more surprising is not the attention the ‘bully’ story has been getting now but the fact that the press covered it up so long.
I do wonder what Cohen will have to say about recent events.
It’s not clear to me that he’s an apologist for anyone. I haven’t heard him say anything positive about the regime (but I may be wrong). I just don’t think he has the same rosy outlook on the opposing western forces that much of the western media has.
It just looks like a huge mess with huge forces pulling from all sides to me.
I mean, some of the things you’re saying can very well be said about the USA as well.
There is a big difference between the US and the situation in Russia or any of its satellites. Bush never put his political opponents in jail or came very close to trying. The 2000 election was stolen but that was only possible because it was close.
I find the establishment handwringing over the Arab spring and the color revolutions to be rather pathetic. What really frightens them is the possibility that the dictatorships will all collapse and there will be no place for them in the new world order. So they would rather do a deal with Gadhaffi than kick his regime when its down which is of course exactly when to kick - and hard.
Russia is rapidly running out of friends. They are down to Ukraine, Syria and the unstable ex-Soviet states round the Caspian sea. And Russia itself is at risk of collapse. Putin is fighting a dozen independence movements in Russia itself. This worries the establishment because if Russia collapses they don’t really have an enemy left that justifies the vast military apparatus. They can make do with fake wars like the wars on drugs and terror for a while but they can’t use those to justify a Joint Fight Striker boondoggle or the like.
Bush never put his political opponents in jail or came very close to trying.
Activists in the USA have been routinely jailed. Ask Barrett Brown how “free” he feels in this country right now… Oh wait, you can’t.
The 2000 election was stolen but that was only possible because it was close.
Speaking of apologists.
I’m not saying I trust Stephen Cohen’s take on all of this, but trying to sugarcoat American transgressions isn’t helpful to your case either.
Umm, we can blame W. for many things but not for jailing a guy three years after he left office.
Umm, we can blame W. for many things but not for jailing a guy three years after he left office.
Exactly, I blame the Obama administration. Yet another authoritarian regime that’s puppeted by the vastly corrupt military-industiral complex.
You’re the one that moved the goalposts and shifted to GW Bush. I’m talking about the United States government, not just GW Bush. Hence my initial statement, “…some of the things you’re saying can very well be said about the USA as well.”
GW Bush does not equal the entire USA, but I think we’re really getting off track here.
The Yushchenko government was not and has never been democratically elected. Yushchenko changed the election law between the first and second round of voting, a move that was obviously designed to enable vote fraud.
I think that’s probably where Cohen goes very awry. He claimed here that Yanukovich’s government was elected into office in an election that “by all accounts was free and fair”. That’s obviously untrue and Cohen should have at least mentioned Yulia Tymoshenko’s allegations, etc. and had a valid counterpoint for it.
It did go to the Higher Administrative Court which reminds me of Bush vs. Gore and the Supreme Court fiasco.
The 2000 election was stolen but that was only possible because it was close.
Wasn’t the Yanukovich election fairly close as well? Again… reminds of the bastion of freedom, the USA.
Anyway, I think Stephen Cohen is suspicious of the timing of some of this stuff considering all the outside influence and I can’t blame him there. And, as I said, I tend to think this is all a complex mess and as someone else in this thread mentioned, it seems similar to Syria as well.
I tend to agree with you that Cohen needs to offer a bigger picture for some of his assertions, but I also tend to agree with Cohen that there may be far more death and destruction with western meddling as well and perhaps even bigger problems with Russia and the U.S., etc. along with it.
I don’t think the US is close to a fascist dictatorship. Arresting people for involvement in non-violent but criminal actions is not fascism.
Putin has gangs of thugs modeled on the NAZI stormtroopers, he is using gays as a hate plank. He murders his opponents and puts others in jail on trumped up charges.
I think most people can see a difference there.
Why ?? Because to most of the Media, anything outside the US that’s not Western Europe, and thus, fairly familiar, is filled with fuzzy-headed mud-worshippers with unpronounceable names. And National Geographic has THAT beat covered.
Or, to take a page from “Dilbert”, it’s Elbonia. . . .
Arresting people for involvement in non-violent but criminal actions is not fascism.First of all, I didn't call the Obama administration fascist, I called it authoritarian (which it most certainly is).
Secondly, you’re sugarcoating the USA again:
• Most peaceful activism is not criminal and they are still being jailed (and worse) in the USA.
• Whistleblowing is not criminal and we know how that goes in the USA.
• Innocent people living their lives is not criminal and does not warrant suspicionless spying which the USA is doing against its own citizens as we speak.
• Organizing a peaceful, anti-corporate/corruption activist group is not criminal and that’s currently (illegally and unconstitutionaly) grounds for governmental, quasi-governmental and corporate entities all colluding together to infiltrate the group and make their lives hell in the USA and worse.
And, this just touches the surface. I didn’t get into the vast prison-industrial complex in the USA, etc.
Putin has gangs of thugs modeled on the NAZI stormtroopers, he is using gays as a hate plank. He murders his opponents and puts others in jail on trumped up charges.Excuse me, where have you seen me defend Putin or Yanukovich for that matter?
Misrepresenting my positions only hurts your own. If you’d put your ego aside, you’d see that I at least agree with you in part that Cohen has credibility issues. And, I sure as hell haven’t said that I approve of anything Putin or Yanukovich do. But, what I’m saying is there’s perhaps a bigger picture to look at and that’s what Cohen is saying and I tend to agree.
No, but I am calling the Putin administration (and by extension the Ukrainian regime) proto-fascist. Which is why I see a clear distinction between the US and Russia and why it really matters if Ukraine chooses the EU or Russian options.
I see a clear difference between Russia and China for that matter. China is improving but Russia is becoming worse. In a decade or so, China might well be like the other asian authoritarian states like Singapore. I certainly don’t expect collapse. Russia on the other hand is already collapsing.
I am calling the Putin administration (and by extension the Ukrainian regime) proto-fascist.
Sure, why not, but at the same time I don’t think we need to go rushing headlong back into another Cold War for fear Putin is trying to become the Fourth Reich. Speaking of which, some of the opponents in the streets are apparently tied to neo-Nazi organizations.
Like I said, it’s a horrible mess. And, I think that’s Cohen’s point. Maybe he’s underestimating a dire threat of Russia to the United States in the near future, but I kind of doubt that considering his credentials and experience.
I think he’s more worried about all the destabilization western forces have already contributed to the messed up situation and it’s something he’s been warning us about for quite a while.
Russia on the other hand is already collapsing.
Depends on who you talk to…
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/01/07/why-russias-economy-isnt-going-to-collapse/
Can Russia collapse and fall under Western control?
Preparing for Russia’s Upcoming Collapse (very dire potentials mentioned)
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/alexander-j-motyl/preparing-russias-upcoming-collapse
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