Underrated and overrated films (and other general filmy chat)

There’s only so much money in a large studio to do “tentpole” big budget films. Yes, you can sneak in relatively low budget ones like ‘Moon’, and I think that market has huge unrealized potential, but that’s not the same as a spectacularly realized SF adventure. I don’t buy the argument that there’s already an audience with comics, relatively few people read or even heard of Antman or Guardians of the Galaxy. To mention 2 ur blockbusters, no one had read a Star Wars comic book in the 70’s, but many had read the novel Jaws. When was the last big tentpole based on a novel rather than a comic or TV series?

In this list of 40 top grossing SF movies, you’ve got to get to 29 for one that was based on a novel, War of the Worlds, not explicitly intended to be a movie (Jurassic Park). Contrast that with the Heston Trilogy, Planet of the Apes, Omega Man & Soylent Green were all based on novels.

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Did it get better after the first book? cause I found it meh and cliche. I dunno. Just not my thing the whole fantasy world stuck in a giant space station got old quickly for me.

Also there are great thoughtful movies being made as well every seems to like Arrival… I would like to go see it.

For all the B or worse cinema I watch I do also like thoughtful films as well. But again Marvel is making modern Buck Rogers films with better actors and great effects and they are FUN! And sometimes it is nice to just watch spectacle on the screen. I loved Fury Road, but lets face it, the movie is pretty much a long car chase with some thoughtful story trappings on top but it is a film that needs a big screen to really enjoy.

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John Carter?

Does Gone Girl count?

The Jungle Book?

The aforementioned Edge of Tomorrow?

The new Jack Reacher?

Hunger Games?

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Twilight?
The Divergent series?

Yeah, there’s plenty.

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Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, I guess?

Ready Player One, soon.

I don’t particularly like book adaptations, though (or see why they’re better than comic book adaptations). I generally prefer the source material, regardless. I’d prefer original films.


I think Hollywood needs to generally make cheaper films, though. When they cost $200M to make, they get too risk-averse, and end up dull, regardless of where the story comes from.

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Guess we have different taste. I found the world in Titan though provoking even if the characters were simplistic, but Dr Strange was not thought provoking in the least, and the kaleidoscopic effects were bore.

I’m not impossible to please even with stupid concepts, I laughed my ass off last night at S01E02 of Stan against Evil. Was very wittily written and acted even though it’s the beaten to death ‘cursed town’ trope.

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Very very loosely based on the books though. Soylent Green in the book is not people and is just a detective story set in an overpopulated dystopian world.

Jurassic Park while it has some moral questions it asks both the book and the movie are pretty much a simple man makes dinosaur, dinosaur eats man romp. They both have plot holes that you can drive trucks, made for a fun B movie with good effects though.

War of the worlds for all the movie versions out there they are pretty much popcorn sci-fi flicks too and while it is an pretty accurate ending it feels like a let down to me now. Also they always make them modern day for the time the movie was made.

Edge Of Tomorrow for a twist on time travel was fun but I actually felt let down at the whole hollywood happy ending compared to the books melancholy ending of the hero surviving to fight another day and had to kill the Full Metal Bitch to break the time loop and the war goes on but it looks like the humans will win.

Also for Omega Man, I liked Vincent Price in The Last Man On Earth better and I still haven’t seen the Will Smith version. The book is probably the best though as it is hard to go wrong with Richard Matheson.

There have always been these big budget blockbuster movies. Marvel has a formula that is doing well right now, and it wont last and I really doubt these all will be remembered and lauded as well as say any Chaplin feature is today.

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A wise plan. I hated it.

(although my aversion to goddamn shakey-cam stuff might have been part of that)

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It’s a fair cop. It makes the world a better place really. I was kinda burnt out on fantasy the time as well. My brother loved the series but I couldn’t get into them.

As much as I like the Marvel movies I don’t go to see all of them on the big screen so that probably has a lot to do with my forgiveness of them. Yay for the Seattle library having an awesome DVD selection. I have fun watching them and sometimes that is exactly what I want out of a movie.

One of my all time favorites borders on horror and that is Island Of Lost Souls. That movie is genuinely disturbing and one of the best endings for a villain ever.

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This. Even though I do see a lot of awful films at my Schlock Cinema class there are also some really great ones that don’t have big all star casts or great effects but they do have a really interesting story.

@gellfex you can search through this thread for my quickie reviews.

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Tough to say whether Titan was fantasy with a veneer of SF or the reverse, but given that Varley is primarily a SF writer, I say the latter. I liked the conceit of a living intelligent biosphere that was “God” to it’s inhabitants for all intents and purposes. The open playground of “what bioengineering would a real God do” was fun. Not saying it was the greatest book ever, but it would make a spectacular movie, the plot is simple and the setting and it’s inhabitants rivals Avatar. Fact is most complex novels make bad or overly simplified movies, often a short story adapts the best.

Sadly for my pet peeve, way too many of the low budget but quality SF movies involve time travel in some way. Like evil twins and body snatchers, its cheap to do.

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There are two versions of the Will Smith film:

  • the studio cut that was shown in theaters, with a conventional Will Smith movie plot approved by focus groups
  • the “Alternate” or “Controversial” original cut, which follows the spirit of the book and the Vincent Price movie

The difference is only a few minutes of material here and there, but one version is a stupid monster movie and the other could be coursework in a philosophy class.

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I think that treating movies like an industrial product instead of an art form is what creates this problem. Why make your movie in Hollywood, for a big studio, with a big budget? Consider the statistical skew that most movies made by the average person do not come from Hollywood - yet those somehow seem to be the only ones most people ever hear of. It’s a result of cartels where the distributors and cinemas are only shilling for the interests of the same few big studios. And people seem to interpret that as “normal”. Hollywood are statistical outliers of the total output of movies worldwide. Unless one considers movies as mainly an economic phenomenon.

Like any decent art, people make it because they have something to say. Not because they need a spectacle and fill in the details afterwards. When it comes to media such as books, music, movies - I think that people should try supporting the work of creative individuals and teams rather than bigbux clusterfux who don’t need the money and have little to say. YMMV

I’d much prefer 100 Alphavilles, Primers, or Moons every year rather than a handful of big vapid generic sci-fi action potboilers.

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All perfectly true. And why I narrowed my description to SF “adventure” films, the ones needing big budgets to be realized. You don’t need lots of money for many other types of stories, just the vision. Fact is, Westworld could be just as thought provoking on a fraction of their budget just without the fancy lab sets or panoramic vfx. Gattaca was made for a midbudget $36m.

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I agree, but this is Marvel we’re talking about. Everything’s ret-conned. Time travel is the device used to do the ret-conning. The whole damn Phoenix saga is a time travel ret-con. All the titles have it, probably many times over. This has nothing to do with the movies, it’s been in the comics for decades.

I think the larger issue is that these plots were written for kids or the YA audience at best, and now they’re being consumed by adults. But then when Ang Lee tries to make a movie about the Hulk for grown folks, the fandom hates it. It’s just sad.

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and @popobawa4u oh god, found that one on a rack in the bookstore when I was probably ten. still got it (pretty beat up, tho) and the subsequent Eclipse mini-series (mint!) just over in the closet. Not sure I could deal with a hollywood actor playing him in a hollywood production. I mean, it would have to remain black-and-white for it to work on me.

“I thought I told you to shut up!

So good.

this this this!

speaking of, I found another gem on TV this morning. Static (1985): Amanda Plummer (Pulp Fiction, Fisher King,) Keith Gordon (Legend of Billie Jean, Back To School, and he co-wrote, too), Bob Gunton (warden in Shawshank Redemption) and Mark Romeneck’s directorial debut.

Lots of long, well-composed shots, great colors, kooky characters, and eighties countercultural cool. Reminded me of a more narrative-driven True Stories. Not perfect, but pretty dang good, though.

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There are a number of comic-adaptations that aren’t superheros:

30 Days of Night
300
American Splendor
Art School Confidential
Caspar the Friendly Ghost
Constantine
Cowboys & Aliens
Fritz the Cat
(I do not count From Hell but you could)
G-Men from Hell
Ghost World
Hardware
Heavy Metal
Howard the Duck (ugh. I wish this could get a proper treatment.)
Jonah Hex (although essentially a superhero)
Kingsman: The Secret Service
The Mask
Men in Black
Monkeybone
Red
Richie Rich (hah hah!)
Road to Perdition
The Rocketeer
Sabrina the Teenage Witch (hah-hah!)
Scott Pilgrim vs. The World
Sin City
(I’m not counting The Spirit)
Tales from the Crypt
Tank Girl (uhm)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (are they superheroes on the half-shell?)
Timecop (really?)
V for Vendetta

And The Walking Dead and Preacher are active TV series at the mo’

taken from here which probably has many I do not properly recognize above.

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A History of Violence?
(I’ve read the comic but never seen the film)

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It is very beautiful.

[you may need to adjust your monitor because that looks fuuuucked uuup even on mine]
lol

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Man, did that formula wear out for me. Marvel was doing sterling work, keeping their MCU movies fun and well-cast and reasonably well-written, but holy shit did they just overdo the whole thing. What are we, fourteen movies into the franchise? (Not counting the X-Men movies, four (of ten) of which I’ve seen, nor the five recent Spider-Man movies (three of which I’ve seen), nor Ang Lee’s Hulk (which I saw), nor B-Fleck’s turn as Daredevil (which I saw), nor any of the god-knows-how-many Punisher and Fantastic Four movies there might be.) Of those 14 big MCU movies I watched eight of them before I gave up. All eight were perfectly competent and reasonably entertaining timewasters, but I simply ran out of any give-a-shit I might have been able to maintain for any of the characters. I didn’t bother with any of the five MCU TV series that have aired so far, even though I think I might like one or two of them. I just can’t be arsed to care about superheroes anymore. They’re usually not exotic enough to be fascinating, nor are they usually human enough to be relatable, and the vast majority of their problems aren’t the problems of anyone with whom I can relate. And the spectacle itself just gets as repetitive as all 52 years’ worth of Godzilla movies, but compressed into a single decade. Way too much screen time is devoted to some all-powerful evil thing blasting chunks of asphalt and masonry off All-American city streets while Our Heroes launch a mini-missile here, no-scope an explosive arrow there, and clobber some villains over the head with a city bus down the block, but mostly you have buckets of CGI pixels spinning around the screen incomprehensibly while large subwoofers insistently pound our skulls with the message that Something World-Endingly Awful is scarring the cityscape and threatening all of humankind again and again and again and hey look there’s another Infinity Stone and you know those will be EVEN BIGGER PROBLEMSzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

God, I can’t even keep awake for my own rants on this shit anymore. My 9-year-old and I saw Fantastic Beasts last week, and mostly enjoyed it, except for the city-smashing CGI Cloud Of Destruction that was ravaging 1926 Manhattan, straight out of The Battle of New York from The Avengers. My daughter’s one criticism of Fantastic Beasts: “too many explosions.” Preach it, my girl!

That’s the trouble. My brain actually likes to go to the movies, too. It doesn’t enjoy having to be put on hold and told to go play pinball in the lobby until the dumb story is over.

This this this this this this this. Once I read Watchmen I didn’t feel much need to read another caped-superhero story since Moore had kinda given the last word on any kind of adult perspective on the topic. Everything else superheroic might as well be six-year-olds playing in their toybox. “Can Batman defeat Superman in a fight?” Son, please. Let’s go play more Skyrim or go ride bikes or something. That question didn’t occupy more than five minutes of my imagination back in 1976. Why would I care about it now?

Isn’t it weird that I still have bottomless love for postapocalyptic road wars, intergalactic space battles, cloned dinosaurs, werewolves, magical academies, hobbits, pirates, Westerns, and kaiju of all flavors, but I have finally been driven to the opinion that costumed superheroes are irredeemably childish? It makes no real sense and is embarrassingly hypocritical, but there it is: even though I pretty much thoroughly enjoyed Phase 1 of the MCU (and really kinda liked GotG and Ant-Man, if I NEVER see another superhero movie it’ll be too soon.

I really want Disney and WB to spend all that money on something else. Really, anything else.

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