A good start would be to check who has won the last few elections in Venezuela.
BTW, many impartial international observers have agreed that elections in Venezuela are clean unlike, let’s say, the 2000 election of George W Bush.
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And does that disqualify her views on this issue?
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Considering the political classes in Latin America are basically plutocrats, and I should know this because I am from there, your idealisation of national industries as beneficial to the common man rings very, very hollow to me.
One question: Are elections democracy itself, or just part of democracy? What about institutions? What about check and balances?
Cuba has elections, and so did the Soviet Union, does that make them democracies?
Funny you mention Pinochet: The Left is always very quick to condemn him (rightfully, as the man was a thug, a murderer, and an a dictator), but what about Castro? Why the Left is so silent about Castro that was (is) also thug, a murderer, and a dictator?
Both Chávez and Maduro were vocal about their opposition to the U.S. for electoral reasons only (to please their constituents showing their macho-facing-big-bad-U.S.-wolf) but what no Chávez supporter (domestic or foreign) can adequately explain me is this: Why then, Chavez kept selling oil to American companies? Why not stop those oil sells like he threatened to to so many times? Why didn’t he stop those sells at the height of the Iraq War, just when the Americans needed that oil the most?
Why not being congruent with his political speech, and cut all ties with the Americans?
I’m still expecting an answer on this one. Perhaps I will get it after all those Anti-US chavistas come back from Disney World.
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Oh wow, this comment section shows how little people here understand about Latin America. There are more reasons to disagree with Chavez than simply hating equality. Granted, a lot of elites hate him exactly for those reasons, but I can’t believe so many lefties here somehow find his actions justifiable just because he claims to be on their side.
In Latin America, because each individual has one vote, and the majority is poor, you simply cannot survive politically without claiming to be pro-poor. That promise is made by people who honestly mean it, and by crooks, too. It’s not the US. Your politics aren’t easily applied here.
Also, how wonderful how someone’s education somehow disqualifies her from making a comment. I assume none of you are college-educated, right?
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As a Brazilian who finds herself at the uneasy position of loathing the US left’s condescending and patronising attitudes towards Latin America, while remaining very critical of the Latin American elites and political class, let me tell you how much I appreciate your comment.
I mean, even the most gung-ho anti-US/anti-imperialist Latin Americans I know have more nuanced perspectives than Western lefties. Jesus.
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Because you are looking in the wrong places. The left wingers I associate with are very critical of Castro, Che Guevara and Chavez. An authoritarian is an authoritarian, regardless of the political allegiance.
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It would be nice to have a little context in this quote. To what country in Latin America did you move?
Second, you are right: Elites here have different standards, and having legally owned copies of software is not one of them. But in this regard, there are no different than the rest of the population. At least here in Venezuela, I know few people that own legal software, even though their cellphones are several times more expensive than a legal copy of say Windows 7 or 8. And I’m not talking here about a prep boy, or a business man: If you go on public transportation, you will find everyone, no matter how “poor” or “rich” it look to you, have an expensive cellphone. Is a question of social status, and it happens in everywhere you look.
As a Venezuelan, is hard to say this, but there is a part of the Venezuelan culture that is shallow, and that values the possession of certain items as a matter of prestige, and this is not limited to the “elite” part of society. Actually, applies to all of it. At the height of the Blackberry fever, every Venezuelan worth his salt (from any social status, chavista or oposición) thought the best way to position himself or herself was through his or her Blackberry. If you had anything else (my case) you were frowned upon.
Sorry, but I have to say I find this statement not only ignorant of the situation, but downright insulting. Assuming that only the elites can speak in other languages is saying you visited Latin America, but you don’t know nothing about Latin America. As someone who worked in the largest non-profit in Venezuela, Fe y Alegría, that brought quality education for people in the poorest areas of Caracas and Venezuela, I can tell you that your statement is utter BS. It is incredibly condescending, and patronizing.
Well, this statement let me know, how little you actually know, about what is happening. How little indeed.
Just FYI, the student that died the first day, Bassil da Costa, was not “elite” at all. He was actually a carpenter, that lived in the outskirts of Caracas.
1: http://yoyopress.com/2014/02/13/habla-la-madre-de-bassil-dacosta-no-lloren-mas-por-el-mi-hijo-murio-como-un-heroe-foto/[quote=“llazy8, post:17, topic:23630”]
Every day I see the frustration of the petite bourgeoisie in Latin America who can’t muster up enough concern for the majority to not sell them out for a new airbook. And in all fairness, it does suck not to have access to all the best stuff. But, I’ve found in myself and in those who really would like to see Latin America end her awful era of corporate colonialism, you deal with it. You don’t agree to policies which advance US corporations’ power and you don’t vote in a right-winger just because s/he promises you quilted toilet paper.
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Again, amazing your “knowledge” about both the protests, and the ones who are actually protesting. Maybe you should write a book about it.
O si quieres me lo cuentas en Español. Dado que dices vivir en América Latina, algo debes saber ¿No?
The Instituto de Altos Estudios Europeos, cited several concerns regarding 2013 elections.
Yes, so very peaceful. They’re practically monks:
I find very curious this line of reasoning from some of the lefties I found here, that goes along with this premise: Chávez loved the poor, therefore if anyone disagree with him it must be because he hates the poor, surely. And if he disagree with Chávez, then by extension it must be elite, fascist, etc.
For my life I’ve never found a more vivid and detailed example of a Strawman Fallacy.
Muito obrigado. That balance is always difficult to find, but not impossible. In my case, I have to say I became disappointed with the Left long ago, because (mostly) people like you and me are scarce in it, and because of the attitudes I saw from the Left abroad, regarding Venezuela. The majority of the Left prefer to play the game of “automatic and uncritical solidarity” where any thug or low-life dictator gets a free pass as long as he declares allegiance “to the cause” and declares himself leftist. I just find this unacceptable. The Left, I think, should be about critical thinking, not about “going along”.
I wish there were more Lefties like you. Sadly, it hasn’t been my experience.
HA ha ha!! This is so funny, so basically the Iraq war was Chavez’s fault. Priceless.
Castro and Che Guevara are well loved and admired pretty much anywhere in the world outside the US, where people get indoctrinated to hate them. Why? Because they dared to stand up to the US corporate interests.
If we are gonna talk about democracy and human rights, why does the US support the Saudi regime or the Israeli apartheid?
Strawman fallacy right there. I’ve never said such a thing. What I said was that Chávez speech was NOT congruent with his political and commercial relationship with the U.S.
You have to learn to read better dear.
Castro and Che Guevara were thugs and fanatics, very much in the same way as Pinochet.
And I guess that, just as there are Pinochet fanatics that think he is God on earth that exterminated the Marxists in Chile, I guess also there are lots of Che and Castro fanatics who think they are these perfect beyond human beings that brought civilization and God knows what else.
Doesn’t erase the fact all of them were thugs. And murderers. And oppressors.
How predictable: A Leftie that can bring himself to criticize the excesses of his side. The cancer of the Left, uncritical, dogmatic thinking.
Why don’t we speak of all human rights and democracy violations, like in the whole world, not only the U.S. ones related? Can you do that without looking the other way when it comes to Left-wing regimes and governments?
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The student protesters in Venezuela have in fact been protesting the government’s treatment of educational institutions as precisely that - an assault on public property.
Bourgeois CIA stooges that they are.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
Can you provide any evidence on that, beyond of the name calling?
By the way, you did know Bassil da Costa, the first person killed in the protests, was a carpenter, blue collar, and definitively not elite, and definitively living in the outskirts of Caracas.
You did know that, right?
How about instead I give you my apology for not making my sarcasm more obvious?
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Hummm that would be better. Apology accepted.
I never idealized anything. I simply pointed out that, especially in natural resource extraction industries, if the regular folk are going to benefit AT ALL from the resources in their ground, nationalized industry is the way it will happen. Privatized oil in Venezuela never did anything for the poor. Under Chavez, and nationalization, the poor did a bit better. The sad truth is that with very few exceptions, natural resources are a curse upon the nations where they reside.
And regarding plutocrats and politics, its the same the world over: if they don’t make up the government directly, they run all of its important functions behind the scenes.
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Nice argument.
