How is this relevant? I can post videos of people getting beat up at protests here too… Including journalists by police. Seriously, you two can post videos all the live long day, but it doesn’t really make a difference in the larger point you’re trying to make.
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Is relevant to prove the point OSGuido was trying to tell you, but nevermind… You don’t seem to get it…
I see it the other way. You and a bunch of people who know nothing about Venezuela trying to distract the attention from the serious issues here because Snowden might come.
I do mind that the US does it, I do mind if my own govt does it as it has direct access to me and my family. Maybe tomorrow there will be a “confusion” and somebody I know will end with 50 bullets. I do mind if my own govt kills the Internet when it wants, also.
If you don’t wanna distract the attention, focus on Snowden, by all means, don’t defend authoritarian govts and talk about societies that you don’t really know well.
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You being from any particular place does not automatically make you a knowledgeable or reliable source. Confused?
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Citation requested, citation given. There are many more too…
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You forgot to add the question, and the rest of the response as well:
RC: Some would say that in the case of Venezuela leftwing thinkers
have been reluctant to criticise things that have been criticised by
Amnesty International and so on because the government is seen as a
champion of leftwing values and basically [has] had a free pass in
term of leftwing critiques. What do you think?NC: Well I don’t [think] there’s an organised leftwing that one can
speak for. But my impression is that such reluctance as there is, is
because Venezuela has come under vicious, unremitting attack by the
United States and the west generally – in the media and even in
policy. After all the United States sponsored a military coup which
failed and since then has been engaged in extensive subversion. And
the onslaught against Nicaragua – against Venezuela – in commentary is
grotesque. So I think it’s natural that the leftwing commentators
won’t want to join in it. That’s pretty standard. Take the Soviet
dissidents: the more honest ones would not have wanted to join
Pravda’s and Izvestia’s denunciations of alleged US crimes.
This is the reluctance I find quite contemptible on the part of the Left. Well, whatever we can understand is the “Left” anyway.
It’s like the trick question: Who do you consider a dictator? Pinochet or Castro. The “Left” always answer “Pinochet”. The “Right” always answer: Castro.
And the actual right answer: Both. Both were dictators. Both were murderers. Both brought misery to their people.
The convenient silence of the Left when it comes to speak about Venezuela, and giving a “free pass” to Chavez (regarding his abuses) just because he declared his movement “a Left movement” is what bothers me. Chomsky is apparently aware of this, but he seems to consider acceptable to “not join the criticism”. Predictable.
Where, actually?
As a matter of fact it does (on the knowledge-ability field at least). I am here, and you are not. All you seem to think “you know” about Venezuela are just bit and pieces. I actually have the whole picture.
Get it?
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I have posted sources and facts that nobody here has proved false. I have written about these issues for years. You don’t like what I said, well, fight the facts.
“Confused”. No, the army of Venezuela, gunning civilians and making people drink gas are the ones who claim to be confused: http://www.laverdad.com/sucesos/31203-que-destituyan-a-toda-la-compania-militar.html
Go ahead and prove me a liar. It’s trivial that merely being from a certain place does not mean somebody is a reliable source automatically, but most of what I see here is people parroting talking points with no real knowledge of the situation.
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This kind of language is not that unlike the way American conspiracy types talk… By this reasoning any American has the most correct and most astute knowledge of American politics just by virtue of being here… I guess if two Americans are in a room the one that’s most correct is the one that was born closest to the geographical center of the country?
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BTW, how does that “citation” prove the slander against Bocaranda, that he is on the “pocket of the U.S”, exactly?
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I actually find laughable the conspiracy types. I called them “platilleros” (saucer guys)
Again, you want to argue that you know more about my country, or its politics, in the what, one hour? two hours? a day? you’ve been reading about it, than me, that I’ve lived here my entire life (38 years).
Also, I’ve studied in the school of History of the Central University of Venezuela, so I think I know a thing or two about my own’s country political and social history…
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I don’t know. Why don’t you ask them?
That would be the best option. In the end, everybody lies.
As much as I dislike the chavistas, that would be the worst possible option of them all. I don’t believe in “good coups”. There is no such thing.
Perhaps, if the Venezuelans had understood this, back in 1998…
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Again, more parroting about American media without really discussing the issue of Bocaranda.
Simply, was he lying? yes or no. Now we know he was not lying.
And we know for a fact the govt has been trying to tarnish his reputation. But we don’t see any evidence of the claim.
We see a lot of slandering, character assassination and ignorance about the situation in Venezuela.
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That is the actual (real) topic here…
The Guardian’s too ‘out there’ for you? I think it’s more respected than the W.P. these days.
I didn’t say anything about Bocaranda, you asked that person for citation that the U.S. was involved in or backed the coup. I gave it.
If they were not involved it would be the first one they weren’t involved in! lol.
Actually, I didn’t. I believe you misread me. I was asking for a source or proof on the slander accusation made against Bocaranda…
That is still matter of debate, but I would not rule it out.
Anyway, what’s that have to do with the subject of our discussion?
And, I understand that without a lot of context and information it’s hard to understand the news coming out of Venezuela, however, an automatic “everything the US media says is false!” or “the enemies or the US are right” won’t help to understand anything, merely to swallow Venezuelan propaganda.
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That’s quite a leap, from being suspicious because it doesn’t pass your smell test to putting it in the same widely disproven, and admittedly a pack of lies, category as A Million Little Pieces.
So yeah, I think it’s just you, and your distaste for his “style.”
