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He’s not even trying to hide it these days.
Look, I’ll make this simple for you:
Everyone has the absolute right to wear makeup that darkens their skin.
Everyone also has the right to decide that action is blackface, to be offended by it, and to think people doing that are being assholes.
You are well within your rights to think the people hurt by what they consider “blackface” are wrong. We are well within our rights to think that you are being insensitive and annoying.
Nobody here is disputing your rights, but you seem to be disputing ours (which, again, is your right, but it’s fucking annoying). Just let it go. You aren’t going to “win” this “argument.” If you want to complain about how offensive it is to you that other people are offended by things you aren’t offended by, then there are plenty of sympathetic ears at 8chan.
ETA: I think it’s strange that you joined the BBS just to argue “this isn’t blackface” in the Trudeau blackface threads. I suggest you visit the other threads, maybe read the guidelines (especially the part about good faith), and learn through observation how to effectively participate in this community. I also suggest you avoid posting in topics having to do with race for a while. Thanks.
Exactly this, and we seem to be taking specific words and diluting their meanings. The media like having clickbait titles and there’s an election going on, so we need to make it sound as though he had the worst possible intentions, and make the word 'blackface" mean whatever we like in the process. I’m not a Trudeau fan, but I’m glad most Canadians are seeing through a fairly subtle form of propeganda.
Maybe we could all chip in and crowdfund some sociology and other college courses for you. There are some very lovely academics out there who made it their life’s work to actually explain racism and blackface, and I’m sure you might gain some other insights about the world.
FFS, I haven’t even had breakfast yet.
That’s not true, I posted 3 days ago that blackface is mockery and caricature, and that this does not meet that definition.
I’m not. We should all be aware that there is an issue with various organizations interfering with our democratic systems. This thing appears at the start of a campaign, and I’m reminded of the special timing we saw with Hilary-related scandals.
Like Hilary, Trudeau is the lesser of 2 evils. His opponent, Sheer, is openly bigoted in his platform. He’s a Canadian Trump.
This is why it’s important we be accurate in reporting. Of course he needs to be held accountable, but if we’re sloppy with our reporting and use of words, we could end up electing an actual overt racist vs Trudeau, who’s done more for refugees and immigrants than any prime minister in recent history. I understand people here are well meaning, but it might have the opposite effect you expect.
Hi. Do you intend to use the rest of the BBS, or was your sole purpose for joining to try and convince us that we are wrong about the word “blackface”?
If it’s the former:
- You really ought to consider learning more about this space and community before continuing to converse in this thread.
- Why don’t you take a break from this thread, and instead participate in one that doesn’t involve blackface?
If it’s the latter:
- Are you an authority on blackface and racism, or did you just read some wikipedia articles?
- Do you have any personal experiences involving skin-darkening makeup that you can share that might enrich this conversation?
- Are you willing to consider the possibility that your position is mistaken?
Your sloppy use of words begins with confusing racism (a system of oppression rooted in skin color or cultural bias)) with bigotry (an illogical hatred for someone over certain physical or cultural markers like skin color or sexual preference).
Racism is the system/method, bigotry the tool, blackface the symptom. The thing is, bigotry is only one of the tools in the toolbox, and racism that produces blackface is accomplished easily without the use of it.
Bernier (or Sheer) may be a raging bigot, but concrete examples show that both (they or Trudeau) benefit from racism.
@beschizza @ugh What I’m trying to say is, things like this get exaggerated in the media (by using words like “blackface” when there was no intent to mock or caricature). This is part of a corporate agenda to elect Andrew Sheer.
Sheer has a freely readable, racist, blatantly oppressive platform that’s getting no coverage. Trudeau has done far more for immigrants and refugees than any other prime minister in recent history.
If you think I’m playing dumb or am trying to be subtly racist, read the Liberal Platform, then read the Conservative platform, look at the polls, consider the interference in the US election, and watch Manufacturing Consent on youtube. Last US election should show that it is important what we cover and how we cover it.
For the. Last. Damn. Time:
What Trudeau did IS Blackface regardless of when or why he did, or that his intentions may not have been malicious.
None of that matters; the fact is that he did this offensive shit, on 3 different documented occasions.
Attempting to gaslight an entire online forum about what is and is not blackface won’t change the facts.
It’s unfortunate for Canada that the ‘least evil’ of their election options has such problematic antisocial behavior in his past, and that his opponents are using his prior dumb and insensitive choices to vilify Trudeau now, but that doesn’t mean the people he’s offended are ‘obligated’ to forgive him or overlook his transgressions.
Which is why it is so important to understand that Trump didn’t cause racism. It was already in place. He simply exposed it to the light of day.
The recent Trudeau scandal did the same, albeit with a dash of white supremacy hypocrisy instead of blatant bigotry.
I distinctly remember the black and white minstrel show being on TV up to the late 70’s and you could buy marmalade with golliwogs on it up to 2002. The trajectory has been similar to that over cultural appropriation and offensive stereotype constumes; even 20 yrs ago awareness was considerably less than it is now.
When the extremists on both sides of the political spectrum are foaming at the mouth, you know the moderate take is the rational one. I think the mayor of Calgary nailed it, echoing pretty much what I have been saying all along.
It seems the doctrinaire among us have replaced the spiritual and psychological notions of universal human fallibility (original sin etc), which allows for forgiveness, with an ideology based on universal guilt, which condemns the person (or group of persons) , not the action. It is highly unfortunate that this school of thought becoming increasingly taught in universities today. It represents a dangerous totalitarian mindset that must be resisted.
Obviously. When flat earthers argue with people who say the earth is a sphere that is in orbit with the sun - it’s the people who argue that the earth is a cube that is orbited by the sun who are correct.
I think you misunderstand social justice. People do condemn the action, but they are allowed to be pissed off and disappointed with the individuals. They aren’t under any obligation to forgive, but also nobody is saying that forgiveness is forbidden. Nobody is taking Trudeau to the guillotine for dressing up as “Aladdin.” People are just expressing shock and sadness about his actions. Do you think such expressions are ruining his life? Nobody is ruining his life over this.
Your remark about universities is a classic right-wing, anti-intellectual talking point. The truth is that there are many schools of thought taught at universities. Students aren’t forced into social justice advocacy—it just appeals to a great many young people who can see that the world is fucked up, and want to do something about it.
People are often afraid of things they’ve never experienced—have you recently sat in on any university classes that deal with matters of oppression? I suggest you do: it might change your mind about social justice, and perhaps you’ll stop telling people to fear the people who want to improve the state of affairs, rather than defend the status quo.
The people you should be fear-mongering about are the right-wingers.
* Edited to strikeout the encouragement of fear-mongering about a specific group. I shouldn’t have said that. Don’t fear monger!
That’s part of the way the game is played. There was a story about Dubya having a DUI in his past that came out like three days before the 2000 election. If 2016 looks close, there will be something about Trump, something that swing voters might not like, which suddenly comes to light. Timing is not a sign that a story is true or that it is false.
I missed the pix of Hillary in blackface. Can someone point me to a link?
Well stated, with one caveat:
Fear-mongering of any sort is counterproductive.
Being conscious, aware, and willing to make the necessary changes required to ensure that the fragile society we live in doesn’t self destruct is a more viable course to take, albeit not an easy one…
I can personally forgive a politician for doing something offensive, while still thinking that it shows a lack of judgment which would preclude me from voting for him.