Oh snap.
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A minor flaw in an otherwise brilliant plan.
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Holy cow. We have the same primary care provider!
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I don’t understand why Wells Fargo customers aren’t handling this out of court - close all accounts, immediately. Turns out if 100% of their customers head for the door, they will no longer exist. And I have a feeling other banks might take notice.
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They aren’t claiming the agreement about the first account transfers to other accounts. They’re claiming that the agreement between you and them (that you’ll arbitrate and not sue) still holds. That’s less “ballsy” than “self-evident”.
I agree with the folks here who say that the sham-accounts fraud is shocking, and that Wells Fargo should face criminal charges, as you or I would. But let’s not, in our zeal to bring them to justice, discard reason.
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I don’t understand why Wells Fargo customers aren’t handling this out of court - close all accounts, immediately. Turns out if 100% of their customers head for the door, they will no longer exist. And I have a feeling other banks might take notice.
You underestimate the penalties and pain in the ass required by real people to upend their lives and refinance all their shit under your (our) libertarian regime.
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Do banks ever look at the contracts people sign before filing them? Feel free to add your own text, or delete sections. If they don’t like it, they don’t have to accept it. If they don’t notice it, oops, not your fault or problem.
Wells Fargo needs a way to figure out how to become a church. If you’re a church, and your contract specifies internal kangaroo court arbitration, then the courts won’t touch it–even if it’s obvious that there’s no actual arbitration procedure in place because no one has ever got that far.
Modus Operandi, show us how it’s done.
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Are you agreeing that should be enforcible?
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I voted with my feet years ago - I’ve been with a credit union since… 1995, I think? - and yet it appears to have had zero effect on Wells Fuckers’ business practices.
Turns out boycotts don’t become effective until there’s nearly 100% participation. Whodathunkit?
Meanwhile, I would like to endorse Wescom Credit Union - they’ve never been less than outstanding. Would use again!
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well yeah, but think of all the time and money saved by avoiding frivolous lawsuits.
Yup, you’d have to look at their legal filing to find out the language they’re relying on. Arb clauses are usually purposefully broad but vaguely so, which is a double-edged sword. When contract language is ambiguous it is a standard American legal principle that it is generally interpreted against the drafter (here, WF).
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The real problem with arb in situations like this is that you can’t pursue class relief. Arb bodies aren’t so much an issue because of potential bias here (although that’s a not insubstantial concern), it’s more that just to open the door to the arb body you usually need to front several thousand in fees which is likely greater than the relief you’d be afforded if you won, making arbitration economically irrational. That is to say, before you even get in front of arbitrator(s), it’s likely to cost you more than you could ever recover.
Even an individual suit in court would likely be irrational for any one individual, thus the need for class actions when actual harm (on an individual, not aggregate) level is somewhat minimal. With class action work usually the individual plaintiff(s) don’t pay any legal fees (at least not directly) as it’s done on a contingency basis so the attorneys take on the risk. If and when arb gets enforced by a court on the defrauded, it’s almost certainly game over.
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Well you’d almost certainly have to sue to ever get a list from WF of those individuals defrauded so good luck getting in contact with all those folk and pushing for a mass boycott, let alone forming a united front.
I’d read the arb clauses they are relying on, it’s not half as cut and dry as WF argues. One of the clauses concerns disputes over “your account,” I’d argue that it’s self evident that “your account” is the account the client set up, not the fraudulent account WF created to rip people off.
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Read Cory’s headline, came to the comments section for nuance, was not disappointed. I’m really curious: does he actually believe these mis-statements or is it just hyperbolic rhetoric?
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Mortgages are a problem, but Wells Fargo is still a bank, and people have savings and checking accounts - easily moved to any of tons of credit unions in the US.
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Huh. Yeah. Mortgages are a problem, a huge problem, but still don’t touch the “all their shit” aspect. They love them some sub-prime auto loans.
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So, by that logic, I (and anyone else who has ever dealt with Wells Fargo) can forge Wells Fargo’s “signature” on some documents that say they agree that any binding arbitration can be done at a time and place of my choosing (such as a 3am in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying “beware of the leopard”). Additionally, I’m only required to give 15 minutes notice to the time and date, via mail, email, or throwing a note tied around a brick through their front windows (any costs incurred related to delivery of the notice are paid by Wells Fargo), and in the event that no representative of Wells Fargo shows up, they forfeit the case, and are required to pay an additional $1,000,000 to me for wasting my time when they didn’t show up.
I mean, that forged signature right there making Wells Fargo agree to this is just as valid as their forged signature saying I agree to arbitration, right?
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