What happens when a casino kicks out a card counter


#1

[Read the post]


#2

The video doesn’t show. Ok, went back and it is fixed. never mind.


#3

I’m sort of impressed by how polite and “reasonable” the pit boss is the entire time.
I mean, it’s stupid- but they can run their house however they want, so…


#4

How much card counting was going on while that pit boss was talking to Colin?


#5

Probably quite a bit, but most if it was inept or downright incompetent. Casinos love card counters who don’t really know what they’re doing. Lots of people pick up a book on card counting a few weeks before their trip to Las Vegas and quickly read through it and don’t put in the hours upon hours of practice it takes to do it well. Real card counting takes some brass - in the video he went down over $3000. A pro will have taken that possibility into account and will have a large enough bank to absorb the loss and continue playing; an amateur might give up and walk away and leave all that money with the casino.


#6

I’m actually surprised they are allowed to force one player to play under one set of rules – i.e. that flat betting, but allow other players to play however they’d like.


#7

Not too surprising since casinos “help” the county/city/state write the rules for gambling establishments.


#8

Perhaps it was just for the purpose of demonstration but it was frustrating listening to Colin argue with the guy. He knew exactly what was going on and that arguing was going to take him nowhere. If he was trying to make the pit boss look unreasonable, mission unaccomplished.


#9

At some level if your one of the very rare people who is good enough at card counting they simply decline to let you play. And then ask you to leave and tell you that if you don’t leave you’re trespassing. The standard way that people try to get around this is to have one guy sitting at the table counting cards and consistently making small bets who secretly signals a confederate to join the table to make large bets if and when he calculates that the deck is now in the players favor. I’m guessing that they have systems that automatically alert the pit bosses when the deck is in the players favor so that they can look for any kind of signal…once may be a coincidence but several times and they’ll find you and ban you…


#10

I think it was for the purpose of demonstration. As one intertitle says, only suckers are allowed to play. It’s basically a scam, and he’s exposing it.


#11

That strategy results in a very different video.


#12

Yeah I get all that. I knew they could boot out card counters (and others they don’t want around) but I didn’t know they could give them the option of staying but flat betting. Seems odd they can make one person flat bet, but not everyone else at the table.


#13

Why don’t the casinos just run bigger shoes?


#14

Indeed. Statistically a bigger shoe is less likely to get as hot, or rather your card counting needs to account for the depth of the shoe and would require the count to get absolutely higher (i.e. heat is ratio of current count and remaining depth?).

I think. Can you tell I don’t count cards?


#15

Is it “reasonable” that casinos can kick you out or limit your play if you are winning through perfectly legitimate means?

All gambling is about odds, and with cards knowing the odds of any particular hand, so the fact that he has gotten really good at knowing the odds is essentially the casino saying “we want the odds in our favor at all times.” It’s like if the New York Yankees decided “hey, when the Orioles play us next week they will have to substitute for their DH, his numbers are too good in our park.”

Fair is fair, and this ain’t fair. The gambling industry has the money, and they can make the rules, including making the rules with Congress, which means they get to keep making huge amounts of money, fairness to the public be damned. Imagine if Congress decided to put warnings at the entrances to all casinos the same way we put warnings on tobacco or medications? “Warning: even if you are good the odds will never be in your favor.”


#16

They’re not ‘making’ anybody do anything. They’re telling you the conditions under which they are willing to continue taking your bets. You always have the option to walk away.


#17

From what I’ve understood bars, casinos, and such are private property, so they can kick you out for anything. It might not be fair that they don’t want you to play too good, but it is legal as long as they don’t cheat ie. on their end they have to keep it a game of chance.
They don’t have to take a single bet if they don’t want to, and they can tell all their friends (other casinos) not to take your bets.
If you want fair, don’t gamble. Can’t get much fairer than that.


#18

I didn’t mean “make” in that way. I didn’t know the conditions under which they are willing to continue taking someone’s bets could vary person to person. That’s all. Now I know.


#19

In Atlantic City casinos cannot legally prohibit card counting. I think N.J. is the only place in the USA with such a regulation.


#20

Yes, but these conditions were not made clear beforehand (though I think we can assume the guy in the video knew the score). Changing the rules after the fact is so sleazy, it’s like a slight of hand: now that we’ve tricked you out of some money we won’t give you a good chance to make it back.