If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
It is ok, in the state of Florida, too provoke someone too react physically and then shoot them because they were provoked? George went looking and stirred a pot he had no business stirring. He was told by law enforcement not too engage and he did.
That the Prosecutor could not illustrate this appears inappropriate.
In nearly a third of the cases the Times analyzed, defendants initiated the fight, shot an unarmed person or pursued their victim — and still went free.
I think that people reacted so strongly to this case because everyone can point to the person who murdered Trayvon Martin. In how many of those black on black shootings do the police immediately know who the murder is, but decide not to press charges?
Actually, the database at the link @fireshadow gave seems to suggest that this is often the case, which seems absurd—I had not seen many other Florida cases before. Many of them seem to be complete madness.
Apparently killing someone in a gang shootout can count as self defense if police can’t prove you fired first. Shooting two unarmed men on a boat and saying they cornered you counts as self defense. Getting into a violent argument, regardless of who provoked it, and then killing the other person often counts as self defense. Having your 14-year old son shoot someone trying to run off with your jetski counts as self defense. Answering your door with a shotgun and shooting the person who knocked on it counts as self defense if you are scared. And if you find your wife in your house with another man, you can go into the other room, get a gun, kill him, and say you thought she was being raped by an intruder… and it counts as self defense.
After perusing these, and also noting the claims of statistical evidence of racial bias in convictions, I’m not sure why anyone thought Zimmerman would be convicted.
Apparently, the “I felt threatened by someone I went to and there were no witnesses” can work in that situation too.
While I haven’t done any analysis, it’s worth noting the possibility that the race of the victim may be more influential in predicting trial/charge outcomes than the race of the suspect, given the dependence on whether the victim was deemed “threatening.”
You appear to be someone who reads a lot into things, and then holds other people responsible for your imagination.
Isn’t that exactly what upsets you about the very people (the ones who, according to you, hold you personally and wholly responsible for white supremacy) you’re complaining about?
I guess I was asking the question somewhat rhetorically. I have seen other people argue that “blacks kills blacks all the time, but you don’t see the media getting upset by that, so we shouldn’t be so upset by Trayvon Martin’s murder!!” I think people making this argument are ignoring the fact that it is easy to yell “press charges against this guy!” and get a response … much harder to yell “investigate the case, find out who did it, and then press charges!” and get people really involved. It is difficult to prove that police are not trying hard enough to investigate a particular case, but it is easy to show to that the police are not pressing charges.
Also, maybe it’s because of recently reading a whole shitload of whiteness studies books for comps, but this thread reminds me of that James Baldwin quote:
Also, also, there is a kid who wants to start a white student union at my University. He’s some 18 year old from Alabama, coming to one of the most racially diverse unis in the south… Oh lordy, there is an article in Time Magazine:
“Who the hell even hear of a hispanic name “ZimmerMANN”?! One of the most Anglo names on record.”
Really?? That’s the argument you’re going with? How about one along the lines of “Who the hell ever heard of an american name ‘Obama’? One of the most Kenyan names on record.”
Your description of your hypothetical taller self nearly made me spit food at my monitor. A stand-alone number for weight seems to be very difficult for lots of people to grasp, even more so if paired with the height. Me at 160 would be obese, Martin at 160 is a very skinny teen.
Glad to hear it. And good luck on your comps! Sounds like you’re in the perfect place for critical whiteness studies. Or rather, a place sorely in need of it. Yes, Baldwin remains The Man when it comes to insight into common ways of white folks.
It’s an extremely diverse campus (one of the reasons I love it - it’s just so nice to see a good mix of kids in the classes I teach), so I really don’t think he’ll get much traction, even though I think the majority of the student body is kind of apolitical. I just don’t think you come to GSU expecting an overwhelmingly white campus. I think he chose to come here on purpose because of that. He had other options for majority white schools around the south east. I think even UGA is much whiter in composition. And of course, he does have ties to actually white supremacist groups, even with his “it’s not about hate but pride” protests to the contrary - come on, dude, BS:
Thanks! I need all the good luck I can get. Almost done with one reading list, still have 2 more (thankfully, shorter ones) to go. Yay endless reading.
Given the exact same set of facts, but with a black perpetrator survivor and a white boy lying dead in the street, do you honestly think he would be acquitted? Statistics on conviction rates suggest otherwise. The jury would have a harder time swallowing that the white boy attacked the black man, they would have a harder to swallowing that the black man couldn’t defend himself without using lethal force, and they would have had a harder time understanding why a black man thought a white boy was a threat to begin with.
Every murder trial that is not white-on-white has something to do with race.
