Completely legitimate in an American election.
Yeah, who gives a fuck about the rest of the world anyway.
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Yeah, I was about to type something about how Iâd like a prez who acknowledges, first of all, what a scourge the U.S. is to so much of the rest of the world (and who actually uses the word âempireâ). And then who does things to cut back on all the constant meddling, overthrows, assassinations, resource-grabbing, labor abuses, and on and on and on.
Back in 2008 I had some hope (ha) that Obama would be like that, but alas. I think Sanders would be more like that (and Iâm not ready yet to say âalasâ on him too), despite the rumblings from suspect corners about him being basically yet another imperialist in terms of foreign policy.
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Yeah, thatâs exactly what I said.
If you donât want TPP, work on your own government to oppose it. If the US was the only country that supported it, it wouldnât be much of a trade agreement.
Pff, my government has danced to the Great Satanâs tune since the 70s. You can find folks who say the CIA had a hand in the dismissal of WhitlamâŚ
Weâre all in thrall to the fucking investor class, who invest in governments these days.
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Well, thereâs not much I can do about that. I try to support legislators who respect the sovereignty of allies, and who believe that our interests are best served by having a rich ecosystem of ideas instead of a monoculture, but we have so many problems at home that problems we cause elsewhere are necessarily secondary from a voterâs POV.
I think everyone is like that, the difference of course is that when the US belches it is heard all over the world. In the long run it will probably be easier for you to get your government to stop asking âHow high?â rather than for me to get mine to stop barking âJump!â
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âWhy demands to endorse Hillary must be rejected.â --Kshama Sawant
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Can I ask what country?
Iâm not exactly certain what TPP (wasnât it TPIP?) contains that is awful for other countries other than adopting Western IP laws. People frame it as awful in the US because they believe itâll harm workers. I have no position on this because frankly, I havenât read it. Also the effect on the average person of free trade agreements is really complicated.
Edit: Nm. I see Australia. May I ask what you think is wrong? The United States already has a free trade agreement with Australia. Iâm not even sure why Australia would sign on to the TPP since you already have free trade and even special visas.
Yeah, I believe weâre already screwed by a damn trade agreement with the US that infringes on or sovereignty; IIRC weâre still in court over our right to mandate plain packaging on tobacco products.
But obviously, more is worse. My concern is which way the wind is blowing.
Youâre issue with US free trade agreements relates to packaging of cigarettes? Huh. I would have never guessed that in a hundred years.
Is tobacco even a small fraction of what we export to Australia? I canât imagine that the United States, as a government, would give a damn about tobacco products outside the US. Donât get me wrong, US companies still make a lot of money off of foreign markets, but their sway in US government is extremely limited. No politician wants to be connected with them. They are toxic.
How about growing rice in drought stricken California and shipping it by boat to Japan, as they are now obligated to buy a certain percentage from us. Iâm not sure that helps either country really.
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Itâs a matter of corporations being able to piss on legislation they think might hurt the bottom line, and for some reason the question isnât why are we even hearing from these arseholes, itâs simply just does this hurt these arseholesâ bottom line?
Literal corporatocracy.
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Meh. I grew up on one of the last farms in Silicon Valley. I know drought. I grew up with drought. At the end of the day, no humans in California are ever going to go thirsty because of the drought. Even at dramatically reduced rainfall, there is more than enough water for ten times as many humans to live in California. It is agriculture (and lawns) that gets hurt.
Wait, wouldnât corporatocracy mean that corporations are in charge? Given none of this has passed, I assume that you still have plan packing cigarettes in Australia do you not?
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Thatâs what it means alright. Corporations writing legislation.
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You wouldnât be doing so hot on water if it werenât flowing in from other states. Growing water intensive crops like rice or almonds just because you get more money for them is completely irresponsible. One of the last farms in Silicon valley⌠Did it happen to be an orchard in Saratoga?
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The evidence for that is rather good:
[quote=âAloisius, post:643, topic:72574â]
I have no position on this because frankly, I havenât read it[/quote]
One reason you havenât read it is that the provisions were kept secret until quite recently. Why keep things like national trade agreements (and speeches to bankers) secret if the content is all sweetness and unicorns?
[quote=âAloisius, post:643, topic:72574â]
Iâm not even sure why Australia would sign on to the TPP[/quote]
They already signed, last February.
[quote=âAloisius, post:643, topic:72574â]
Iâm not exactly certain what TPP (wasnât it TPIP?) contains that is awful for other countries other than adopting Western IP laws. [/quote]
Youâre probably thinking of IP in the form of movie copyright; the biggest issue is drugs. Governments with national health care can currently negotiate early provision of generics, especially in the event of a health crisis. TPP would eliminate that ability. âSorry nice country, weâd love to be able to help you with your epidemic, but our hands are tied by this here agreement.â Robert Reich, Bernie Sanders, MĂŠdecins Sans Frontières, and others have all expressed strong concerns that the agreement could harm or kill millions of people.
With respect to Australia and tobacco, it really is a big deal. Australiaâs law, ironically also called the TPP (âTobacco Plain Packagingâ) Act, has apparently had tremendous success in reducing smoking, and could be a model for many or all other countries, especially in the Pacific Rim where smoking remains high. International tobacco interests have fought it very hard in Australia, and are desperate to have veto power over such laws, not so much for the smokers in Australia but also for those across Asia. It is a much-needed threat to their business.
[quote]
Donât get me wrong, US companies still make a lot of money off of foreign markets, but their [Tobacco companies] sway in US government is extremely limited.[/quote]
Iâm sorry, I donât believe anybody is that naive. Which tobacco company do you work for?
Speculation is unnecessary, the tobacco industry has already killed an attempt to exempt tobacco from provisions of the TPP that give the agreement power to prevent a country from regulating such products.
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Close. I actually grew up on the last orchard in Los Altos. My family owned a rather large apricot orchard before Silicon Valley got its name. By the time I came around, all that was left was grandfatherâs hobby farm.
Growing up where I did though, all of our water actually came from California - Hetch Hetchy to be exact. Well, technically the water used on our farm came from a well, but drinking water came from Hetch Hetchy. Only Southern California and a little part of the very North gets water from outside the State. While the Colorado river provides about 60% of SoCalâs water, it is actually a drop in the bucket compared to what the rest of the state gets from the Sierras.
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Thatâs when you have snowpack, which has been declining every year. Iâm full well familiar with where water comes from in the state. I actually grew up just down the street from Piers Dairy, if youâre old enough to remember it.
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Oh wow. I havenât heard that name in a very long time. My grandparents used to get milk from there. The dairy closed down before I hit high school.
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Are you wealthy?
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