I don’t know why but this video, more than any other, has illustrated the point to me of why this behavior is considered harassment. I guess I just never really got it before.
The thing that particularly got me were the “have a better attitude” ones. There used to be this guy on the N train to Queens: Fingerless Roy the Basketball Coach. He used to panhandle and had this little speech that always ended with, “if you don’t have change, I always say have a smile.”
Sometimes I would smile at him and he’d say, “thank you” but I couldn’t help but think, “fuck you dude. You don’t know what kind of day I’ve had and now you want to ask me for change and tell me to smile on top of that? Just fuck you.”
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After all this, how about you – proactively – come up with an idea. Do your part.
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Have you spent any time in NYC? Where I come from, on the west coast, it is perfectly common for people of either sex to smile and say hi to me on the street. In New York, that is not the case. You simply don’t say hi to all (or any) of the thousands of people you pass every time you set foot on the street. In that context, trying to strike up a conversation is rude and obnoxious.
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That’s fair enough, but I suggest one thing for you to work on is your defensiveness and willingness to listen to what people are telling you. Then working together can be achieved.
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It’s like you didnt read anything I said
I respect the conciliatory tone of this post.
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You are a true New Yorker.
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Let me get this straight, I acknowledge your defensiveness and say you need to work it and you say I didn’t read anything you said? Amazing. Not only did I read it, but I said I agreed. I gave you a suggestion of what I feel you need to do to help this situation, and again this is how you react.
As a woman I am going to point out this is exactly what happens to us. We explain our side and then are told we just don’t get it. We aren’t the ones listening. When it’s you who doesn’t.
This also comes after you ignored earlier suggestions made by me and then lied saying you had taken those suggestions on board.
as well as shouted at me, and cursed. Yet some how you getting defensive is understandable when people give you suggestions after you asked for them.
You don’t want to work together, you just want it to be worked your way.
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“STOP GETTING DEFENSIVE STOP GETTING DEFENSIVE STOP GETTING DEFENSIVE”
And thank you for proving my point. You are no different than the men on the video. So I now suggest to you if you want to see examples of this type of harassment towards women in the world, just look in the mirror.
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Here’s a suggestion.
“Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal.”
The issue is that the woman is in fear of attack from the harassing male. The unequal position of strength puts the woman at a disadvantage should she be assaulted. Solution: allow concealed carry of firearms, as increasingly many states do.
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Oh bugger off. Have you ever tried telling an angry person to calm down over and over again? How did that work out for you eh? I could just as easily say to you “Stop doing things that make me get defensive” and it would be just as valid and as just as much to the discussion as you telling me to stop getting defensive. I said it in my other post, we’re both on the same side in this, lets stop fighting amongst ourselves. It strikes me that you are just looking for a fight.
You’re on my side? I’ve been shouted at and now told to bugger off and I’m the one looking for a fight? Get over yourself. I know I have.
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Jesus dude, take a break.
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A true New Yorker might have spoken-up.
I was raised in the Pacific Northwest where we hide our true opinions behind a veil of courtesy.
Also, those trains get crowded and hot in the summer. Sometimes the power goes out for hours and you’re stuck on a bridge, shoulder-to-shoulder like sardines with no AC. People have heat stroke and pass-out.
We ought to be allowed to throw people who tell us to smile out of the door to their doom.
That’s an issue, but it’s not the only one. Even if the woman is not in fear of attack, it’s just really fucking annoying and depressing to be accosted by sleazy guys every 5 minutes and randomly verbally degraded by strangers. A gun in the purse isn’t going to help with that, unless you are proposing that she be allowed to shoot them.
I mean, I’m a guy, but at certain times of the year we get a plague of charity magazine sellers and people asking me to contribute financially towards saving the world. Even though I’m broadly in favor of saving the world, it gets to the point where I dread hearing the doorbell, and resent having my video game interrupted. So I can extrapolate up to what it would be like to feel the same kind of reactions every time I tried to walk down the street.
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Guess what? I’ve been shouted at too, for offering help. I’ve been sworn at too. If you are so arrogant that you are willing to turn down honest help when it is offered you are telling me that you don’t need help and it isn’t an issue that needs solving. Fine I’ll be on my way and I’ll pay the problem no more mind. If that’s what you want. Your call.
We all are only one person each.
Some or all of the below you may already be doing. And if, like me, you’re plain not suited to volunteering or can’t directly help financially, there is still things that can be done. This is just from my PoV as a socially awkward visitor on this planet and may not even relate directly to you.
Speak up. Call out bad behaviour. Help make a culture where it won’t thrive. Don’t let it become normalised. This is going to take a while and it needs as many people as possible to help with this. It might seem like you’re doing nothing important and yeah, this won’t ever completely eradicate assholes, but it’s a damned good start.
Don’t take criticism personally. When someone raises issues about abuse and harassment by men, it’s tempting to jump in with a #notallmen. There’s no need. Even if it’s well-intentioned, the best that it can do is derail a thread. At worst, it can contribute to the sort of culture you’re trying to avoid by diminishing the seriousness of the original issue. They don’t mean you and deep down you know it because you’re helping to make a positive change.
Listen. Other people have different experiences. Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not there. It’s really easy to brush off stuff as people being over-sensitive and whinging about nothing. Don’t do that. It’s a dick move. And really don’t tell people how they really feel or how they should feel.
Stay strong. There are soooo many assholes out there, but every voice against is one more of us and one less of them. Societal change takes ages but it can and it will happen.
I’m sure there’s loads of other things that can be done. But ya know, socially awkward visitor and all that… I should leave it there and let others add more suggestions. It’s an imperfect list.
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I feel this needs to be said to all parties involved in this discussion
It’s the best damned comment in the thread so far.
If harassment still happens, the horse is very much alive.
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