Nope. But if I were walking down the street in the local city, I’d give someone walking opposite of me on the sidewalk a nod or say “Good Morning”, man or woman, if/when they make eye contact with me (in my town we sometimes even wave at strangers driving through). Could this could be misconstrued as intent to approach them
because of their appearance or because you’re sexually interested in them or because you want a reaction from them are you"?
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You may not know guys who do this, so you maybe can’t tell them, “Not cool.” Maybe you do know guys who laugh at this or who minimize this. You can tell them, “Not cool,” too. It may take a while. Still, white people have mostly become embarrassed to make overtly racist comments. Progress by embarrassment is possible.
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It’s a little difficult to determine, since those exchanges didn’t go anywhere. It’s a lot easier to focus on the clear offenders, and not on assumptions of what people might or might not have done.
IF you don’t know the woman involved, it’s probably best not to do anything. Mostly because you don’t need to come to her rescue. The only time you should do anything is if she seems to be in any danger. You see some of the men get in her face; that might be a good time to say, “HEY! Stop that.” Basically make it known that someone notices. BUT ONLY IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE. Because keep in mind that the asshole may take you as a threat and may get aggressive toward you and/or the woman.
So I think in most cases, ignoring is the best case.
Keep in mind, as well, that the woman may not want you to do anything and she may just want to continue on her way and not make a scene. Because that shit can be exhausting.
So if you see it in the wild, use your best judgement, and only get involved if you think she’s going to be in danger. Call 911 when appropriate. Otherwise let HER deal with it. You’re not her savior.
Your best bet? TALK WITH YOUR MALE FRIENDS if you see them do this or suspect them of it. Basically, have conversations with your male friends. And talk to women! Ask them about what they’ve experienced. It may give you some greater onsite. You know, have real conversations about this stuff with real women. And listen to them! Don’t argue or take it as a chance to debate. Go in understanding that you have no real experience with this and therefore you need to learn and the best way is to ask! (But also know that we (women) aren’t always going to be in the mood to talk about a sometimes upsetting topic; we aren’t obligated).
And I mean online AND in meatspace, btw. Don’t mans plain, don’t dismiss, don’t second guess, don’t “but i don’t see it happening!” or “i’ve been in this situation/walking down this street/working at this place but have never witnessed it! Surely it’s not that bad/are you sure it doesn’t happen?”
Have conversations with your friends, including your male buddies, and LISTEN and BELIEVE women when they tell their stories. Work to understand and be empathetic and don’t be quick to second guess the stories of women. And don’t take shit personally. It’s not about you (general you, to be clear). And Don’t #NotAllMen / #ButNotMe
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Are you sure you’re actually paying attention? It’s okay if you’re not seeing it. Stop getting so defensive. I read your responses after I made my larger response above. Stop taking this so personally. I notice you keep getting frustrated, and it’s because you’re making this about you (again) and your experiences (or what you’re not seeing) and what you can do. Which is great, btw; I’m glad this has been eye opening and that you want to do something. But you need to stop getting so defensive, dude. Back off just a bit. YOUR knee jerk reactions are not helping. You claim that it’s been eye-opening, and yet you’re still coming from an argumentative place, as if we OWE you something. We don’t, btw; it’s up to you to learn.
My suggestion really is still to ask questions and listen to stories. Take THIS video and your new open eyes and use it as you go forward. Pay more attention to your surroundings. Watch how men interact with women in public. REALLY watch. Do you take public transportation? That’s a great place, including at the bus stop.
You may not have noticed or seen this sort of stuff before but even you say this video was eye opening which means you just weren’t watching for it. Now you’re aware and perhaps, with your newly opened eyes, you’ll see more.
But also know that just because you don’t see it, it does not mean it doesn’t happen. Your perspective may be one reason, but also timing (confirmation bias and all).
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I live in New York and don’t witness it because I’m a man. After I told this to her, one day my fiancee had her phone record what happens on her 1 hour commute. I counted 8 or 9 catcalls. She’s 26 and dresses conservatively.
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I wanna pick up on one point, if I may
When people are over and over again picking people like @SirCracked and myself up over “white male privledge” when we are asking time and time again how to help and saying that we aren’t privvy to what to do about a situation we are lagrely not aware of, you kinda DO owe us an explanation. We can’t work to fix an problem we are unaware of and throwing our unwitting ignorance in our faces isn’t helping.
You and I have clashed before Marilove, so let’s for once try to keep things civil. I agree that the kind of behaviour in the video attached to this post is completely unacceptable, and I wouldn’t accept it. But think about the maths for a second. In the video the caption states that in a 10 hour timespan there were “100+” incidents. even with generous rounding that’s 15 per hour for someone specifically looking for it (again, let me state, thats 15 per hour too many).
Is it that far out to assume that someone not specifically tuned to such things and going about their own business might not be aware of this problem, especially when everyone gets someone coming up to them on the streets, be it Big Issue sellers or charity pushers or "'ave you got 26p for the bus"ers, other people’s interactions quickly fall into the background.
Just my perspective.
You may not have noticed this happening before, but, if your eyes have been opened, you will see it now if you’re on the street at all. Watch the guys watching women. When you see it, you don’t have to call it out. Just let a little of the disgust that I hope you are going to feel make its way to your face. If the perpetrators start to see looks of mild revulsion, not the blank looks or looks of mild amusement that they so often get, at least a few of them may start to feel that their behavior is not enhancing their status.
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Frankly Captain, you are not coming across like you have any genuine interest in helping at all.
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Then I’m sorry but I don’t know how I can be more clear. I feel I have explained my own experience (or more to the point, lack thereof) with regards to this issue quite plainly and at no point have I tried to shut anyone else’s experiences down. I agree that it happens, I agree that its the opposite of what should happen, and I have asked for practical suggestions as to what I can do. Other people seem to be able to see my point, even Marilove with whom I don’t have the greatest of conversational histories with, yet you for some reason are convinced I’m what? faking?
Imagine you’re walking down the street. Multiple people who outweigh you by 30 to 100 percent look you up and down. Maybe a quarter of them comment–the comment won’t necessarily be suggestive, but that doesn’t make any difference, because the look by itself was all about sex. If you respond politely, there’s likely to be follow up: you’ll have to figure out how to turn the person down. If you say nothing, that may be the end of it, but some of those big people will be angry–usually just a little, though. If actually come out and you say you aren’t interested, quite a few of them will invade your space and get threatening–follow you and so on.
So, this isn’t harassment, in your view. I’d put to you, however, that the effect is identical to what you would call harassment.
This is never a way to meet people. Yes, it’s possible to meet people on the street, but the stuff you are seeing here is pure power play. If you can’t see what makes it so, watch carefully. The difference is obvious to anyone who wants to see it.
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And when you are given suggestions of what to do you give excuses as to why you cannot do it (monetary) or ignore the others ones.
Is it impractical to educate yourself? Read what women are saying? I recommend “Bitch” magazine as an insightful read. https://www.bitchmedia.org
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I didn’t ignore anything I took suggestions on board. I was not aware that I had to specifically state when I have read and understood every single post on here.
If Doctress Julia still posted on here she’d definitely have posted this by now.
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You’re not. But it’s interesting that you respond to what you expect others to do (like @Marilove owing you an explantion) and only respond to what you can’t do in regards of suggestions and not acknowledge suggestions you may be able to use. That comes across to me as not paying attention and/or caring. The main responses I have gotten from you in this discussion are knee jerk and many with all caps written showing your defensiveness to things I have said.
Just my perspective.
Edit: also want to point out that I gave you a list of suggestions (as did others) and then this happened:
That would suggest you didn’t take any of the suggestions I made on board. So you just ignore what you want and then deny that you ignored it.
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So, you’re all ‘meh’ about catcalls, but you will point out online incivility of which you may have been victim?
What is the correct response to your situation? And is that the response you offered the cat called?
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You can share that URL!
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I’m convinced the only complaint you seem to have is that there is nothing to be done about the issue, yet you’ve been given a long laundry list of things you could do if you wanted (no one’s saying you should, just that there is plenty to be done) and you still maintain the complaint.
What’s the problem you have here exactly, that is yet to be resolved?
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Hey, I have a few open spots left on my bingo card: “a scientific study” and “form a committee” and “not in my town.”
As a 5-foot tall woman of color, and former resident of St. Louis and Chicago, I can definitely confirm that catcalling was pervasive there, usually when I was walking by myself. In daylight. Often in crappy baggy clothes I wore to do restaurant kitchen work.
In the 1980s, a former roommate from India told me about “eve teasing,” which happens relentlessly in various parts of South Asia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_teasing
Grim.
After this news (and feeling depressed), I had guessed that most places in the world probably had something similar going on. I’m afraid to even contemplate what evolutionary advantages this behavior could possibly have, if any.
At least India has been experimenting with solutions.
If I ever found a “women’s car” on a train or women-only bus in any of the towns I had lived in or live in now, I’d sooooo be first in line to ride one.
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WARNING - This post desolves into a bit of a stream of consciousness towards the end and shouldn’t be take solely as a response specifically to @robulus - END OF WARNING
I think I see where the breakdown in communication has happened here. I am not saying that there is nothing that can be done about it, I am saying that I do the things you are suggesting but with my limited scope to act, it feels like the very little I CAN do makes any difference. I am but one person.
I see a very real problem that makes women feel vulnerable and threatened and it upsets me that there isn’t much I as one person can do about it.
When I ask what more can be done, that is literally what I want to know. I am not attempting to derail I am not attempting to “make it all about me”, despite what you or anyone else may think and brushing aside such questions with comments that amount to little more than “If you don’t already know I’m not going to tell you” will naturally put me on a defensive footing. That’s a natural thing to happen and pointing it out doesn’t advance the conversation any, and in fact will do nothing apart from make one more defensive.
We are both on the same side of this problem, we both think that this culture of cat-calling etc. is wrong. Let’s try to work together and not fight amongst ourselves, eh?
