Women's Input, Comments and Rhetoric on the BBS

[Melizmatic]

@gracchus

pointing out is that it is contentious, just as more gender-friendly movies and cartoons and games are.

Thanks for explaining to those feigning lack of awareness.

@tuhu

You’re both a goat and a GOAT.

[milliefink]

@jonboy_nemo

if i’m included in that reference, i want to make absolutely clear that i’m not in denial about the negativity and violence that women experience both on and off-line, now including here. i responded honestly to a question about whether i had not “noticed” the problem in this particular community, one which i had previously felt was a safer alternative to many “social networks” i’ve already dropped out of in protest and exasperation. the responses were eye-opening, but i think my concession that i had not noticed it before (or at least don’t remember noticing it) is being read by some as aggressive in itself.

Dude, maybe step back a bit, so you can see that it’s not all about you, and whatever or whoever you are.

[chgoliz]

Is this the thread where we’re allowed to add input, comments and rhetoric?

Nothing like finding the Ladies Auxiliary to feel like there’s a place for us in town.

[anon61833566]

[anon61833566]

I think everyone who knows both of us here on the bbs will agree that you are far nicer than I am. Because I can paraphrase this reply in so many less words…

[DukeTrout]

@codinghorror

Was this directed at the army man / woman topic? Was there something particularly problematic that happened in the topic?

It was much like @beschizza anticipating that the UK police scooter thread will draw in the authoritarian-loving bootlickers like flies to honey. And he wasn’t wrong, either.

[Mindysan33]

@jonboy_nemo

i’m probably blinded by male privilege and selective clicking on/engagement with comment threads.

So maybe listen to women when they say this is an issue?

@jonboy_nemo

it’s embarrassing to discover that i’m wrong about this, but i sincerely felt this was a much better place.

It is. It’s still a problem. Being better doesn’t mean it’s a gender egalitarian utopia.

@jonboy_nemo

i was not sure why it was hidden but wondered if it was a trolley who was complaining about “woman-related” content and i was trying to understand if that’s where they were coming from or if it was the opposite.

You’ve been around but you don’t know @Melizmatic? Or me? We are regularly in the top 20 posters here?

@jonboy_nemo

i will certainly pay more attention in the future and i apologize to anyone who may feel that i was belittling or suggesting that misogyny was not a problem just because i haven’t recognized much of it here.

It will help if you don’t immediately shrug concerns off. That’s certainly a step in the right direction.

@codinghorror

I’d think more gender-friendly toys wouldn’t be a particularly contentious topic on BBS.

Literally anything gender related becomes an issue, because there are men here who consistently refuse to see a problem or to believe women when we say there is a problem. Every. Single. Time. We are denied.

@jonboy_nemo

not sure why that comment was so unpopular

Her comment currently has a good deal of likes, so not unpopular at all. Just some wanted her to stop talking about issues of gender, because, even though it likely doesn’t impact their lives directly, they think it’s not an important issue or that we’re making too big a deal out of it…

I’m very glad at least that this has all been made aware to you. I hope it shapes your engagement here going forward. The intention of vocal women here is never to “drive people away”, but to get them to recognize us as equals.

@chgoliz

Is this the thread where we’re allowed to add input, comments and rhetoric?

[jonboy_nemo]

@Mindysan33

So maybe listen to women when they say this is an issue?

i’m not sure why you think i am not or have not been listening. i simply have not encountered others specifically saying it is an issue in this space.

@Mindysan33

It will help if you don’t immediately shrug concerns off.

again, i’m not sure why you think that’s something i’ve done, but i’m sorry if it came off that way.

[Mindysan33]

I was replying to your original post. These have been robust discussions for quite a while now on these boards. I’m glad you’re paying attention to them now, but this has not been some secret around here for quite a while. Every single thread related to women devolves into a discussion, with people saying it’s not a real problem, and those of us who are impacted by it explaining that yes it is.

But as you’ve said in this thread, you’re aware and will think differently about this, and for that I am glad. So thank you for taking this seriously and listening to us.

[jonboy_nemo]

i appreciate that the larger issue is not about me. however, several replies have been directed at me and i think it’s natural to feel defensive.

[Mindysan33]

Well, being told our problems aren’t real also makes us feel defensive… and this is often a refrain we hear here whenever a thread like this comes up. It’s exhausting and utterly demoralizing, especially for those of us who are not only women, but are raising young women in this world, too.

[tuhu]

@jonboy_nemo

however, several replies have been directed at me and i think it’s natural to feel defensive.

Imagine if you were a woman…you’d be replying for days.

[milliefink]

@tuhu

you’d be replying for days.

Yeah, though sometimes not, given a common male attitude.

[ficuswhisperer]

@gracchus

white male neckbeard showing up to either complain about this “ruining his childhood”

Whenever I hear this argument (in a non-ironic sense, naturally) I can only feel sorry that someone is so weak-willed that a remake/reboot of something they cherished while growing up can be retroactively ruined like that. (It’s different if person involved with said thing ends up being a terrible person. Sometimes I can reconcile this, sometimes I can’t and it literally does ruin it for me.)

I mean I may get pissed off at the creative bankruptcy of the whole enterprise that it can’t come up with anything original but if you want to recast a lead as a female (or better yet, female of color), I absolutely welcome it because at least it’s doing something different.

[smulder]

When George Lucas remade his own movies he really did try to stop people from seeing the originals

only example I can think of though

There was never a time when you couldn’t go see the Bill Murray version of Ghostbusters again

[tuhu]

There were people that thought A New Hope was George Lucas’s inferior imitation of the source material they nostalgically remembered from their childhoods, too.

People get attached, it’s only a big problem when they find ways to hog the mic and complain and threaten and otherwise bother people who don’t care that someone would prefer a more sexist or racist version of the same thing.

[ficuswhisperer]

@smulder

When George Lucas remade his own movies he really did try to stop people from seeing the originals

That’s a little different I think.

Lucas was actively suppressing his earlier revisions – which I can on the one hand kind of get where he’s coming from creatively (free of budgetary and technological constraints, he wanted to make the movies look like he always envisioned), on the other there’s the frustration that he either didn’t know, care, or understand the charm of the originals with all their quirks.

That’s far different than going into a rage because an imaginary animated character is voiced by a black woman in the remake, or because a toymaker adds different genders or skin colors into the mix and this somehow makes the original thing retroactively awful by association.

[smulder]

@ficuswhisperer

he either didn’t know, care, or understand the charm of the originals

or their historical significance

[Mindysan33]

Hey guys… if you don’t mind… this isn’t a star wars thread.

[ficuswhisperer]

@smulder

or their historical significance

Yup, that too. This is actually kind of an emerging problem today. It’s too easy to erase history. Kanye West (I know, I know - don’t leave the room) famously revised his Life of Pablo several times after release by tweaking songs, and removing and adding tracks. The whole permanence of things is greatly at risk and things like DRM further hinder preservation.

I guess Lucas was just way ahead of the curve here.