Lol, which coal lobby talking-points handout did you copy this from?
[quote]The power we generate is not for us, it is for California and New York.
You greedily snap up every kilowatt and demand more.[/quote]
I don’t understand this - is it meant to be a complaint? “Oh, woe is us! This thing we produce, other people want to buy as much of it as we can produce! Won’t someone please save us from the free market!”?
It’s like Frankfurt complaining that most of the cars made there are exported, or Seattle moaning that the Boeings made down at Renton or up in Everett don’t spend their entire lives shuttling commuters around Washington state.
That does not include the fossil fueled power plants on standby.
Look, I want to believe there is a magic answer to hard facts.
There is not.
Right now solar and wind are a subsidized joke.
The pollution you all complain is coming from coal production in Wyoming… Well what do you think those solar panels are made with in China?
It is your demand for cheap electricity that is driving the coal market.
You didn’t want nuclear power so you outlawed every aspect of it.
Yet 5 hours worth of power a day comes to you from nuclear power.
If you really didn’t like that you would shut off the breakers on your house and at your place of business for 5 hours a day.
Such a shame seeing as wyoming is mostly empty and windy as hell. it is the perfect state for wind energy production, and already has a fair amount.
sounds like these politicians care more about padding their pockets then the health of their constituents and the planet as a whole. seems they have a few dupes suckered into thinking that propping up coal is a good thing…sighs.
All electricity produced on a commercial scale goes onto a grid. It is bought and sold from the grid. We are discussing Wyoming coal which is used to produce electricity for the grid. If you all really don’t like coal, unplug from the grid.
Otherwise you are in favor of coal.
It is that simple.
You can’t rationalize it away like you do the true cost of solar and wind.
All the energy and pollution to produce a solar panel is ignored in the calculation of it’s power production over a lifetime.
It is the same with the environmental costs of solar panels, wind turbines, concrete, steel, coal burning power plants… the intitial costs of energy and pollution to create them must be factored in to the sum of their energy production to have a fair estimate of them.
Let’s get real.
We don’t have clean fusion energy yet.
Solar and wind are a stepping stone but are not currently a substitute.
Fossil Fuels are what keeps the motor running.
They will be for a very long time.
By the way, that hydro plant… how was the concrete, steel, bolts, rivets, excavation, overburden… how was that accomplished?
How much energy?
[quote]By the way, that hydro plant… how was the concrete, steel, bolts, rivets, excavation, overburden… how was that accomplished? How much energy?
Think it through.[/quote]
A one-time hit of 100MW of fossil fuel energy used to build a dam that produces 100TWh of clean energy. Every year, year after year. It’s not perfect, but I will definitely take that trade. Won’t you? Feel free to “think it through” before you answer.
By the by, and as amusing as it has been, this thread isn’t really about the merits of coal vs renewables. It is about the naked corruption evident amongst Republican elements of Wyoming’s legislature. Would you care to address that?
Naked Corruption?
Wyoming has:
no personal income tax.
constitutional carry of firearms.
the smallest population of any state.
the most firearms per capita of any state.
the smallest budget of any state.
We will do as we please in our state.
You want to tap our resources and it impacts an industry we already have,
we are going to tax you to recoup the loss.
Of course, you could always build your windmill in California.
They don’t tax anything… ha ha.
So friendly to business those Californians.
The hypocrisy that you would demand our coal to produce power for your
overpopulated states, put up a windmill and declare yourselves green…
We are going to tax you and you will pay us gladly because you are making
more people and every one of those people expects to flip a switch and
power their lives.
You are damn right we are going to tax you.
is provided by the Federal Govt, and has nothing to do with state corruption
3), 4) and 5) are accidents of geography and demographics, and have nothing to do with state corruption
is nice, but I fail to see what that has to do with state corruption, unless you’re offering it as an example of a bribe to look the other way which y’all fell for? In which case I definitely see your point.
I love Wyoming. In the 1980s I made frequent drives from Ft. Collins to Cheyenne to load up on hard liquor (18 year-olds in Colorado were restricted to 3.2 beer) and firecrackers. I backpacked 50 miles in the Bridger Wilderness. Friendly people, too. But your state government is terrible:
Okay “Jon Snowden”,
Explain the corruption.
I don’t see any.
By the way, your local “gun laws”… are you allowed to carry at all?
I think not.
Talk about corruption!
Jon you have been used and abused and lied to.
Wyoming is being honest.
We have a budget shortfall.
We need the money.
You Jon, need our coal.
If you want to build windmills in our state and it impacts our coal we are
going to tax you.
Makes perfect sense to me.
You want something we have ie; wind.
Okay, pay us for our product which Jon, is part of our “geography”. as you
say.
What has Washington state given away for free Jon?
So the entire state govt is corrupt… that is what you are saying.
No.
I live here and that is not true.
a $10 tax per megawatt does not equal complete state corruption.
In fact, it is a damn good idea for Wyoming.
Y’all got funds.
You want our wind.
Pay us.
PS. I have reached the 17 post limit imposed by BOINGBoing.
I am told I must wait 17 hrs to post.
It has been fun.
I hope y’all have learned something.
There are real people here in Wyoming.
We have families, homes, jobs.
Don’t tell us to go back to college when we have 3 kids and a mortgage.
There is a new sheriff in town.
Things are gonna be set right.
PPS.
All I can do is edit this post.
BoingBoing has decided to handcuff me.
I always know when I get nearest the truth when the first guy throws a punch.
Too bad this isn’t Disqus where we can talk freely.
Or I could keep editing this post until the mod squelches this too.
A 17 post maximum?
Really?
Sorry, but y’all are on your own.
So much for freedom of speech.
I’m confused here. @Matthew_Edwards is saying that Wyoming should tax other states at 10$/MW for its renewable energy - but the bill in question would seem to be taxing Wyoming state utilities, not out of state ones - which wouldn’t be affected?
Under this new proposal, power providers could continue to generate and sell wind to customers outside of Wyoming without a penalty—but they would be hit with a fee for providing that same power to in-state residents and businesses. Utilities that fail to meet the proposed standards would face $10 penalty for each megawatt hour of energy the utility fails to procure from approved sources and the utility couldn’t recover this penalty by raising customer rates.
I think Wyoming selling its renewable energy to other states to make up its budget deficit sounds like a good idea, but that isn’t what this bill is.
