doctorow at July 23rd, 2013 17:23 — #1
dark_nz at July 23rd, 2013 17:29 — #2
And if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
allenk at July 23rd, 2013 17:44 — #3
It's funny because it's true!
cstross at July 23rd, 2013 17:46 — #4
I hate to defend the NSA, but this actually makes sense if you think in terms of them being a secret intelligence agency. (Which they are.)
A facility to globally search all employee email would cross classification and secrecy boundaries, and risk inadvertently revealing top secret stuff to whoever was running the search. By limiting email searches to just one employee at a time, they can at least anticipate what classification levels the search will encounter (by knowing what that employee is cleared for), and thereby ensure that whoever's doing the search doesn't stub their toe on FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE.
It might in principle be possible to design an email system that could keep track of classification codewords and secrecy flags, but it'd be monumentally complex and worse, how do you prove there are no bugs or logic errors in it?
If you accept the requirement of running a secret intelligence agency, then you need to be able to keep secrets. Global search is not compatible with secrecy. QED.
nixiebunny at July 23rd, 2013 17:54 — #5
They should ask their ISP to let them attach a box to the network so that they can collect all the data their employees send and receive.
askvictor at July 23rd, 2013 17:57 — #6
If they just used gmail...
tribune at July 23rd, 2013 17:57 — #7
Maybe China keeps the NSA emails in a better format for global searching.
strings at July 23rd, 2013 17:57 — #8
That's if you don't have an estimated 8-10 billion$ budget and access to a whole slew of classified AI patents. An advanced neural network could easily sort out who has access to what, the contents of an e-mail that are relevant to any specific FOIA request... What's more likely is that they have such a system, but it is highly classified and responding to the FOIA request would make it known
dragonfrog at July 23rd, 2013 18:18 — #9
That's if you assume the NSA's tech is actually effective at finding accurate information. I don't think we should make that assumption.
What consequences would they suffer if they were completely incapable of producing strong, credible intelligence? None - they are never held to account. So why assume they can?
Incidentally - just think for a minute about the concept of a "classified patent". Classified. Patent.
boundegar at July 23rd, 2013 18:18 — #10
I have the perfect solution: PRISM.
davide405 at July 23rd, 2013 18:33 — #11
The NSA turned down a FOIA request.
In other news today, water is wet, and the Pope is Catholic.
davide405 at July 23rd, 2013 18:40 — #12
To quote Inigo Montoya out of context:
"I do not think it means what you think it means."
acerplatanoides at July 23rd, 2013 19:22 — #13
To be capable you have to be willing. So they're definitely incapable.
johnmc at July 23rd, 2013 19:23 — #14
Easy solution: Just search National Geographic's email instead.
lasermike026 at July 23rd, 2013 20:14 — #15
What is the statement here, "Don't worry, we're stupid!" Oh yeah, I feel better now. It's like I'm on the deck of the Titanic.
I don't believe it. If what they say is true, which it is not, it still makes them insanely dangerous.
urbane_gorilla at July 23rd, 2013 20:26 — #16
Bullshit. Any sysop could scan the network's emails. Pretty sad when the NSA stoops to lying to avoid embarrassing themselves further. Defund the lying jackasses.
retchdog at July 23rd, 2013 20:34 — #17
Why? I think the "QED" was kind of tongue-in-cheek and, moreover, it was a reasonable argument.
Note that it's not clear that the NSA turned them down out right. Agencies are allowed to bill the requestor for personnel hours and duplication costs — ProPublica might not have been able/willing to pay for 30,000 manual searches.
tac at July 23rd, 2013 20:40 — #18
We would use our power to force another countries leaders plane to the ground to try and catch someone not actually on board. Making the leaders look like morons tends to get someone held accountable.
retchdog at July 23rd, 2013 20:58 — #19
I don't know what your point was, but there are classified patents with well-defined rules.
Basically, patent applications get audited by DoD/CIA/whomever, and if one of them is deemed sensitive to national security, it gets classified and the inventor/assignee is forced into treating it as state secrets. In return, I think they get special consideration as a supplier from the government (which could be a windfall) and a standard patent term which starts immediately after the state secret is relinquished.
There are also rules for what happens if someone independently re-patents the thing that is secretly patented. In short, the re-inventor gets screwed completely, the state secret gets reviewed, and if admissible the original patenter's term kicks in. So, yeah, classified patents exist (or at least they did in the cold war days, dunno about now), and they're buried landmines.
strings at July 23rd, 2013 21:18 — #20
They still exist. Last I checked, there were some 5000+ patents that were classified. Down from 6000 around the cold war, but still enough to be incredibly troubling. The Invention Secrecy Act is VERY loosely worded in favor of the government, obviously. It's just been around so long that people seldom question it anymore.
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