10 million pounds of human feces from New York/New Jersey are rotting in railcars stuck in a small Alabama town

As any gardener worth their first $250 tomato can tell you, the problem with composting straight feces is a lack of good nitro-carbon mix. Too much brown, not enough green. Or possibly reverse, since biosolids are heavy on nitrogen, but that doesn’t matter, because it’s a waste management 101 calculation. If nothing else, we should be half-filling those containers with shredded paper waste and a few pounds of earthworms.

Those containers are not composting well, because they’re not getting stirred, but they are cooking and there’s some aerobic action, because if people can smell it, it’s not sealed. (And that’s good, because if they were sealed, and cooking, they’d be exploding any time now.) Containers with a mix, plus worms, would be much more usable after a couple of weeks of transport. That’s essentially what my great-grandfather was doing every winter with 50 cows, their bedding, and a big compost pile. It’s not rocket science. It’s just labor intensive, smelly and risky at this scale, and right now, we’re externalizing this cost onto poor, rural towns that can’t refuse. But food and fiber production should be a relatively closed circle.

Not sure I trust Alabama’s Department of Ag. If they’re like most state ag departments since the 1970s, they’re 85% agribusiness industry captured, meaning most of their recommendations are not in line with agricultural botany, agricultural ecology, or agricultural best practices, and encourage excess product and equipment use (which damages the soil, contributes to erosion and water pollution, and serves to transfer money from farmers to lenders). Skimming the waste use document… yeah. Using manure-based fertilizer is hard - it’s inconsistent and requires the farmer to think, test, observe and calculate more variables. Haber-Bosch fertilizers are easier - simple ratios, applied by tractor. (And we’ve spent the last 80 years encouraging the smartest kids in farm communities to do anything but farm, but that’s an argument for another day.) The other 15% at Ag departments and extension offices try to make their recommendations lowest common denominator.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the pharmaceuticals in composted human waste. Truly, neither farmed trees nor cotton give a damn, and those are the best use for this. They’re an issue, yes, but methane and carbon in places they don’t belong are bigger threats right now. Downstream water is an issue, but most of the down-stream water contamination from agriculture can be fixed by changing our tillage and erosion control patterns. If we take care of the 80%, the 20% becomes controllable.

The reason I go back to my great-grandfather’s records is a) he left 64 years of records and was both an educated farmer - BS in agronomy in early 1930s, got his master’s in the 60s, and toyed with a doctorate on tilling/no-till until the mid 90s - and farm born and bred. He was organic before that was a concept, was far more prosperous than most of his neighbors, didn’t switch to anhydrous until the 70s, when he was beginning to slow down, when he switched to corn/soy/hogs from dairy/silage and tomatoes, green beans and sweet corn for canning. So I spent my early life listening to him talk about the realities of 50 cows on 500 acres, and since his death (at 98) (slowly) transcribing his and my great-grandmother’s records for climate data.

9 Likes

My guess: NJ & NY sent these train cars south just in case Roy Moore won the special election. With Jeff Sessions as AG, the cars are left there as a reminder to Alabama: “this is what we think of your politicians.”

Wow, thanks for this fantastic reply!

Your transcription work is solid Big Picture thinking, and we scientists and farmers are lucky you are devoting time and energy to something rare that we desperately need to understand. Institutional memory is getting harder and harder to find, yet this is part of what it means to be truly native to a place.

My belated thanks to such a devoted family who has been doing things right, taking the long view, and for painstaking record keeping. Thomas Jefferson, as you may know, did much the same re: the weather:

I agree that farmers have plenty of chores without the tracking of variables such as spot-temperature measurements of windrows/compost piles, timing of those temperatures, and even more management like turning of big piles. When you have an overabundance of chores, no-till does appeal strongly. I get it.

I also agree that vermiculture could be an excellent choice if the piles aren’t too hot (temperature-wise, or chemically). I’ve done that kind of composting for decades and love it when the worms do nearly all the work for me, including turning the pile.

http://compost.css.cornell.edu/worms/basics.html

Again, thanks. I learned quite a bit from your post. I am grateful for your time and insights. Please keep taking good care of your precious land, which does much to secure clean air and clean water. This system has a value beyond price, beyond time.

“If you eat three square meals every day,
you should be thanking farmers three times a day too.”

ETA: chewing on no-till

2 Likes

I thought it was a Cleveland Steamer…

Can’t they just send it back where it came from? I mean NY, not people’s bums…

1 Like

This!

90 is getting warm here, and 95 is starting to get hot. 100-105 that’s hot, and anything ~110 is pretty darn hot. But I live in a dry part of So. Cal. so it’s not that bad. Worst I’ve been in was 117 with no aircon, and that was do-able with enough water and shade.

I don’t even want to imagine that scale in a humid place…

1 Like

By (that wild contrarian) Gene Logsdon

1 Like

I think most of them would cheer and vote for it :frowning:

image

4 Likes

not too hard to find out.

adamsville is 75% white, west jefferson 99%. but, together they have less than 5,000 people.

in this case, i’d guess it has more to do with being rural, and having a deregulated state with little money and few environmental laws.

Radiolab have a good episode on the poop train from NYC.

1 Like

[Just read that article on highly sociable Roman toilets, through which water runs to clear it…sorta.]
They can launder their togas in it, then either beta some fast new construction methods or chase the cover crops with carbonate of that stuff. Or just open the Rome-stylee sanitary house, with shared sponge-sticks and aqueduct service. You’re welcome, Alabama. You have the replacement Facebook before anyone else. oh caitifty1…that was the diamond-shedding phosphorescent nanodots of Pixiesplaining. FUEL magazine. Gotta have special furniture made to hold shelves that say FUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEL.

1 Like

Question: Is a stationery Shit Train better or worse than a Dumpster Fire as an illustration of the current state of America?

2 Likes

LOL, let’s celebrate with more poo: https://www.zazzle.co.uk/collections/fluorescenteshit-119527978742998235?CMPN=share_nclif&lang=en&social=true

I’d have thought the tort of nuisance would be the townsfolks’ friend here…

3 Likes

Safe enough for cotton, which they do indeed grow a fair bit of in that part of Alabama.

1 Like

That big long dump train seems a little constipated.

1 Like

A shit train to nowhere…

1 Like

Maybe ask them whether there is a way to tell NY shit from NJ shit?

1 Like

Because there is money in it.

1 Like
1 Like