13 dead in California bar after gunman opens fire (Update: shooter identified)


(For all the pedants salivating out there, I don’t have time right now to make a more accurate graphic stating that the US has been involved in some form of aggressive military action over the course 214 225 years, as opposed to officially “declared war.”)


I live maybe a 30-min drive from this shooting.

I grew up in Canada, which a) Hasn’t had a double-digit mass shooting since 1989, and b) Still has free elections, a free press and the other hallmarks of a functioning democracy that doesn’t need to be ‘protected’ by millions of guns.

I’ve given up on Gun Control, all I hope for now is that people (Democrats, mostly) would have the guts to run on a policy of Gun Accord – where we, at the least, treat guns like cars. Licence, registration, VIN-style on-gun tracking numbers also linked to ballistic signature, state-registered change of title on approved sale and mandatory private insurance of $1,000,000 minimum with rates set by actuaries based on risk and record. (“Good gun owner” with a pistol you keep in a safe? Your insurance will be cheap. Packrat hobbyist with 12 AR’s and a .50 cal you keep over the mantel? You will pay a lot for insurance, as you should.) And when you die, you either transfer your guns to a relative or they get destroyed.

These laws, for cars, all save lives and keep us safe.

They’d do the same for guns.


In one report I read, a group of men actually formed a line to use their bodies as shields for the group of people massed behind them.


according to the definition posted down-thread by @Ryuthrowsstuff:

there’s an “or” in there – terrorism is primarily intended to create terror among masses of people – creating fear to achieve a religious or political aim is another goal, but it’s not always the main goal.


My hometown. So far, everyone I know is safe. But it was a popular spot for my high school classmates to meet up when they were in the area so I’m still waiting to hear from a few people.


Really bad haircuts?


That’s what happens when you openly hate on all the women and gay people.


“… simply rush the gunman …”

Damn. Spoken like someone who has never been shot at before. Or doesn’t understand that most people just want to live to see tomorrow, even in a country as fucked up as this one.

Why, if President Trump had been there, he would have rushed the shooter and saved everyone. He thinks, as a guy who’s not been at any of the mass shootings but has a high opinion of himself and his manliness.

Not yet, but I feel like it will be soon. After everything that has happened in the past year, I don’t know what will set it off. What will the divide will be? poor vs rich, left vs right, race vs race? All of it is in place and teetering on the edge of catastrophe, like a plate spinner with an itchy nose.

“By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes.”


Not sure of formal definitions, which seem pretty fluid depending on circumstances. I would suggest shooting randomly into a crowd will always cause fear. The Las Vegas shooter certainly caused fear, but to the best of my knowledge there was no religious or political aim, similar to the Colorado theater shooting. If causing fear is the defining feature of terrorism, any crime of violence could earn that label. I don’t think that is a useful definition.


Ventury County Sheriff Geoff Dean told reporters that he has “no reason to beleive there was a link to terrorism”

I am sorry, but any time someone with a gun walks into a bar, school, workplace or wherever and starts shooting, it is an act of terrorism and it needs to start being treated that way.


Well if you want to understand how to prevent it from happening next time, motivation is of paramount importance. That and comprehensive gun control.


Seems appropriate:




Yeah, I have to wonder what the criteria is for that 21 years. Having the President use the term “war”? That would include Korean war, but not Iraqi Freedom. Maybe some arbitrary number of troops committed to it?


Let’s try this: Guns are free, but bullets/casings cost $10,000 each.

Of course, then the wealthy would have an advantage. But when don’t they, really?


Yes. And that the shooter in this particular incident was a marine “believed to be suffering from PTSD” sharply draws the connection between violence in foreign lands and violence at home…

But my earlier comment, that “this is what peace looks like” was intended to draw a distinction to war on foreign soil and civil war. Historically (with the obvious exception of the 19th c. Civil War) most of the US’s fighting and dying has been in other countries. But lately it feels like a war zone.

Since Trump was elected there has been muttering that the US could end up in a civil war. And I think that most people, when they envisage such a thing, conceive of some kind of dystopian scenario with warring militias controlling different parts of the country. But arguably it will, it does, look a lot more like this – the erosion of social order and rule of law.


Indiscriminate bombing of a civilian population for political purposes?


I’m supposed to carry a gun AND infra-red googles to see through the smoke

You don’t need goggles. If everyone just fires blindly into the smoke you’d almost certainly get the shooter. Probably get lots of 'em.


well, that’s true, but deliberate mass shootings are a whole other level of fear. you’re right, there’s been no motive found for the Vegas shooter, but if that event doesn’t count as terrorism, then i just don’t know what to say.


Even if nobody is terrified?