13 dead in California bar after gunman opens fire (Update: shooter identified)


#21

So, if the logic holds, I’m supposed to carry a gun AND infra-red googles to see through the smoke when I go out?


#22

“Lone Wolf” is both the name of the protagonist in the Shogun Assassin films, and the name of the protagonist in the D&D/Choose Your Own Adventure style books I used to play when I was 10.


#23

Because white nationalist terrorism isn’t something we admit is a bigger problem than any other form of terrorism. Prediction: white 29 yo male is a member of Cult45.


#24

Unpossible! Everyone knows that having a good guy with a gun on scene is the one sure-fire way to prevent mass shootings!


#25

I’m not sure I know what “terrorism” is anymore.


#26

Well… if Pepperdine students were there… no need to further sell the upscale locale of this bar.


#27

Not sure why anyone would be conflicted in a case like this. Thirteen innocent people were killed in a deluded man’s act of TERROR and violence. It has nothing to do with school yard bullies or altercations in a grocery store checkout. This is terror plain and simple.


#28

and here i thought that a person with a gun shooting people in a public space WAS terrorism. silly me.


#29

Well, I guess that this is sort of a “Chose Your Own Adventure” :frowning:


#30

If there is a political aim, it should be called terrorism. In this country we are way to quick to call shootings by brown people specifically terrorism while being very reticent to use the term on white people. I have not heard many use the term for Dylan Roof FFS!


#31

Terrorism is such a loaded term that you really have to consider who is using it and for what purpose… it definitely seems to mean something beyond “mass killing,” since though terrifying, those can happen for purely personal reasons. It seems “terrorism” requires some declaration on the part of the perpetrator of allegiance to a specific political affiliation. Yet, correct me if I’m wrong, we still haven’t called the incel killers terrorists… those killings are definitely motivated by specific ideology, but for some reason don’t rise to the level of “terrorism.” Somehow what’s missing is allegiance to some “legitimate” political/ideological group. ETA: they also might not be considered terrorists because they have a “boy next door” quality and have been mostly white

There’s obviously a motive on the right to paint “terrorism” as coming from “the other.” But some of the worst terrorists in the recent past have been white supremacists like Timothy McVeigh and his compatriots. Scary how their ideology is so close to mainstream now.


#32

A whole lot of failures and lack of will behind that game of definitions.


#33

I’ve posted this elsewhere but, yes:


#34

Hm… I’d like to know why


#35

Because the fundamental thing about terror is not that it causes fear.

But that it attempts to effect a political or social goal, by creating fear.

It’s part of the definition of the word.

Which is why motives are absolutely not irrelevant.

Motive speaks directly to whether others are involved. Whether there is some movement that is likely to continue, or escalate such actions.

Your classic flavor spree killer isn’t politically motivated. They act in isolation, under a psychology that’s similar to serial killers. Sending a message is not neccisarily part of the point. More of it having to do with glory seeking, proving ones importance, revenge on society at large. And “going out in a blaze of glory”.

These guys, like serial killers, are rare. And we don’t neccisarily have to worry about them very much. In particular we don’t have to worry about them, say, organizing an armed riot where a counter protester gets mowed down by a car. Or organizing a complex bomb plot to take out a specific government building as retaliation for law enforcement actions against ideological allies.

Have for some reason been specifically prepared to survive shootings. One of the survivors was talking about how everyone in the bar was “pretty familiar with guns and how to make themselves the smallest target possible”.

These millennials are ruining mass shootings by being better aware of how experts say you should respond than Fox News doctors. How am I supposed to get them off my lawn now.

Federal Law enforcement and intelligence groups have been saying this for better than 20 years.

Noone seems to have thought that was important though.

If that’s the case what specific political or religious motivation did the shooter have?

Cause we don’t seem to have that information yet.

I mean it’s fairly likely there is one. Because an escalating number of these events have it. But we don’t have that information yet.


#36

The hall of shame gets another asshole…


#37

Yet another mass shooting.


#38

So we can add this to the list of now 12,476 people who have been killed with guns in the US this year.

Meanwhile, in the past 18 years 1,865 American soldiers were killed by “hostile action” in the war in Afghanistan.

If this is America at peace, what will civil war look like? Or are we already there?


#39

My cousin went to Pepperdine and she is also a Trump and 2nd amendment fanatic.

I am curious if this guy turns out to be a 45cultist (stealing that from you @anotherone ); how she will deal with the dichotomy and twist herself into a mental pretzel to justify still supporting 45 and the NRA.


#40

Amazing how they all have a similarity here…I can’t put my finger on it. There just seems to be a common thread for them all. hmmmmmmm.