As a person of Hillbilly heritage, I though it would be worth signing up to address this issue. I am not entirely sure why someone up north would fly the rebel flag, but the issue of why someone would fly it down here is at least complicated. Other commenters have mentioned that it is not the flag of the Confederacy. Most of us grew up with it being seen as a symbol of southern identity. I think the “heritage” argument is a poor one, as all of us have large parts of our heritage that would be best left in the past.
I recently watched “Hair” again (the film). I noticed that at the very end, which features a large hippy gathering, the hippies are flying large American and rebel flags in the crowd. I do not think that they were doing so as a pro-slavery statement. I really do not think that was the message of the film at all. Likewise “Dukes of Hazzard”, or all of those southern rock bands.
But the point is that southern identity is about a great deal of things beyond the issues of the civil war. Of course, many of our brethren up north see us a nothing but a pack of inbred racists in trailer parks. We certainly have some of those. It is just as unfair to see northerners as rude, orange faced D-bags from “Jersey Shore”.
Southern identity is about a great many things besides the legacy of slavery. And most of those good things are not exclusively or primarily White. One of those things is the tendency to “rebel” against the instructions of those who feel they are our betters. Around here, there are a lot of people flying rebel flags these days. A great many of those people are doing it not because of racism, but just because they don’t like being told not to.
Anyway, that is my two cents worth.
Southerner here, not a fan of the Confederate battle flag. Dismissing criticism of the flag as Northern prejudice costs you credibility.
When someone’s choice of rebel pride is a flag that was flown by an army which was assembled for the express purpose of maintaining an economy based on the ownership of 3 million Americans as property, it’s the wrong symbol. Southern pride should not be depicted by a standard originated to rally to fight for the disgraceful right to enslave people.
Maybe that is the point of people not using the actual confederate flag. But regardless, I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole. I just want to comment about what the flag means to a large percentage of us down here, at least during my lifetime. (I grew up in the 70s). I am trying to understand what it means to all of you., and mutual understanding is a great path to harmony.
To me, it has always been a non-threatening symbol of southern identity. When someone has a rebel flag plate on the front of their truck, it usually means that they hunt and fish, eat a lot of catfish and fried chicken, and probably have a favorite Nascar driver. There is almost certainly Lynyrd Skynyrd on their playlist. Pointy-toed boots and a big hat are a likelihood west of the Mississippi. Those are the sorts of things it means to me, and I grew up in the thick of it. I get that this has not been everyone’s experience.
So the recent war on the rebel flag seems to me like a bunch of people had a committee meeting, to which I was not invited, and concluded at the meeting that I mean several hateful things by displaying that flag, and I must now hide it. To me, that sounds like the argument being made against the Anthem kneelers. They say they mean one thing by their respectful protest, and other, angrier people are insisting that they are trying to make a completely different statement.
I will conclude by saying that I do not expect anything I say will make you less hostile to the flag. I just want you to be aware that there are a lot of people who have been flying it for decades without intending it to be any kind of racial statement. And now there are people flying it not because they are racists, but are flying it out of stubbornness despite the risk that the could be wrongly accused of being racists.
How do you distinguish between the non-racists who fly the flag and the racists who fly it? I suppose you could ask, but maybe you’ll understand why some are reluctant to approach a person flying a symbol of slavery widely used by white supremacists.
Because they are racist.
You think southern black folks want that to identify them? When it was regularly used by the KKK and those supporting segregation in the 50s and 60s?
And not all of those white, as you say and not all of us want to be identified by racist symbols.
You’re being told by your fellow southerners that we don’t want to fly a symbol of oppression and hatred.
What do you think it meant to people who flew it in “sundown” counties like Forsyth Co, GA, where you couldn’t live if you were black.
We’re being pretty clear on what we KNOW it means, I think.
Of they don’t care about being called racist because they don’t actually care about the problem of race in America, because they don’t see how it’s "their " problem, despite contributing to the problem by continuing to glorify slavery and segregation.
This. We may have a ways to go for everyone to feel comfortable calling the authorities, but at least we have managed to avoid mob justice becoming commonplace again.
It is possible to liberate a symbol from its history (see: Starbucks logo 
). I don’t think people have been effective in that, or you’d see black libertarians flying it en masse, or anti-trump southerners flying it at rallies. Unless I missed it, that isn’t the case.
Nobody can tell you what a symbol means to you personally. But the folks wanting the rebel flag to represent generic rebellion haven’t managed to separate it from that history.
All I am suggesting is that people at least consider the possibility that they might not be 100% correct when making assumptions about other’s motives for flying the flag. I have spent almost my whole life in the deep south. As far as I know, I have never met a member of the KKK. It has been decades since I have heard a White person speak the N word. An that was my Mother relating a story of a racist neighbor she had in Alabama who used the word in the 1960s.
But anyway, mistaken ideas about a person’s motivation for doing something can really complicate communication and compromise on that and other issues. There are many, many examples of people proudly displaying the rebel flag where it would be ridiculous to claim that they were doing it to glorify slavery and segregation. I propose that there are still a lot of the same people doing it for the same benign reasons. In my county, many of those people are proud descendants of men who fought for the union in the Civil War, and whose families suffered mightily for that choice.
Okay, so some people fly that flag for relatively benign reasons. It nevertheless registers to far more people as a symbol of racism, and especially as a symbol of the days when blacks supposedly “knew their place.” Given that, do you agree the flag should no longer be displayed in public, regardless of the motives of those flying it? And if not, then why do you consider the relatively benign feelings and motives of a few more important than the reactions of many, many others?
Yes, despite the well-meaning few, this is also a problem of systemic racism, where sometimes those symbols that are problematic need to be readdressed and quite likely removed. Too many exceptions in the name of ambivalence starts that inevitable slide down a slippery slope in reasoning.
If I really thought that displaying that flag all over the south for the last 50 years was really a major cause of racial problems, or if it’s elimination would actually solve any of those problems, I would go door to door speaking to each of my neighbors about why they should get rid of it.
Instead, it looks as though the rebel flag has just become the focus of some sort of populist Eye of Sauron. Everyone has sort of jumped on the bandwagon and decided that this is the new thing that is causing all of our problems. Most of the flags will get tossed in the dumpster, some people will have a good time mocking and scolding southerners, then the eye will move on to the next thing. Part of the issue is not just that people want to ban the rebel flag, but the idea that we are a country of people who solve our problems by banning flags.
The article starts by positing the the idea that displaying the flag is proof that those doing so are racist. I have made the argument that this is not necessarily the case. Constantly accusing people of things they are not actually guilty of will either result in their full submission to your will, or will result in their stubborn resistance to you. An act of rebellion, if you will.
That’s a reaction you’ll often see from parents whose small children are testing their limits, which seems to be the petulant behaviour he’s describing. I’m not sure why he’d paint such an unflattering picture of those he’s making excuses for, but I guess there’s only so much one can do to explain away an adult flying a flag that is regarded by most Americans in 2017 as one supporting oppression of black people and armed treason.
Bravo for offering to do something no one suggested. No one has said the flag is a cause of racial problems. However your belief that people are wrong for seeing it as a symbol of racism, and your belief that it’s “benign” says a lot. You expect people to see the flag the way you supposedly see it and you expect them forget the history.
Willful ignorance of history is a cause of racial problems.
No, people are understanding that the flag is being used as an emblem for an even larger problem of racism and regression. Devolution if you will.
Flag =/= problem.
Flag = symbolic manifestation of problem.
What you are doing on this thread is an attempt to hijack the narrative through rationalization, which whether or not you ascribe loyalty to an alt-right, fascist, or neo-liberal position, you still attempt to give it power.
Most BoingBoingers understand logical fallacy, and will refute your argument till the cows come home.
They are still flying a symbol of white supremacy, whatever their intentions.
I have too, thanks. I met plenty of white supremacist, because I actually paid attention. Being white didn’t shield me from the realities of racism in our part of the country. All I had to do was open my eyes to the lives of people who didn’t look like me.
Listen… SOUTHERN STATES PUT THE REBEL FLAG ON THEIR STATE FLAGS TO PROTEST INTEGRATION. It was part of mass resistance. This is historical fact, not a wild guess on my part.
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