Sure. Who gives a shit, right? What really matters here is the law, after all…
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I give a shit. I never said I didn’t. But the law, the courts, and the school can’t fix everything. God, I wish everything were that easy, but it isn’t. I wish I could make everyone do the right thing. If I could, Trump wouldn’t have been elected in 2016, COVID would never have gotten so bad, we never would have gone to Afghanistan or Iraq and started wars there, the war on drugs would never have happened, and people with addictions would be sent to hospitals rather than jails, but I’m not God. I can’t make everyone do the right thing. And that’s certainly not what our courts or schools should be engaged in. Because fuck, who gets to decide what the right thing is? The people in charge now? JFC that would be a nightmare. Me? Fuck no, I’m wrong way more than I would like to admit, and I can sometimes be an asshole, as much as I try not to be.
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And given that it will take more than 45 days for it to go to trial, the courts may decide any suit is moot. Since we’re talking middle school athletics, it’s a stretch to say the suspension caused any material harm. Was she an Olympic level athlete trying to make the team? Was a scholarship or pro-athlete contract at risk? Doubtful.
The suspension may be embarrassing, but is unlikely to cause permanent harm.
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How is asking people to not be selfish dicks who don’t give a shit about children asking them to fix anything? I’m proposing that we work towards a society that stops throwing people away. If anything the law, etc, are a major part of the problem here, as they put rule of law above human beings.
[ETA] But also, if a kid is binge drinking, then perhaps the state SHOULD step in and do something about that, actually.
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Is that what the school or the court has done here? I mean, I’m with you, but you’re talking about a way bigger societal problem than this case. The school hasn’t thrown this child away. They said she can’t play sports. And, as I said earlier, hopefully local child services will get involved here.
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On that we agree.
But the school should have an obligation here as well to deal with this issue, as the child is partially under their care for part of the day.
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We really don’t know if this was an isolated incident or a pattern of behavior on the part of the girl.
If it was a pattern of behavior, then (as many people have said) this is a matter that goes way beyond whether this girl should be allowed to play volleyball and that does really require intervention from the mother or, if the mother is unwilling, the state.
On the other hand, if this was an isolated incident, hopefully the experience of getting wasted (which is not fun at any age) and the subsequent penalty will dissuade the girl from drinking again (as other people have also said).
In either case, there is really nothing more (or less) that the school can do about the matter.
If a 13 year old binge drinks ONCE there should be some sort of intervention. Even if there is not an established pattern already, it’s clearly the start of one.
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Yes, absolutely. Indeed, there should be an intervention from both the parent(s) and the school. In the case of the school, I think that the suspension from playing volleyball was the intervention and anything beyond that would be taking on the role of the parent(s), which is not something that schools are really equipped to do and has a lot of messy legal implications. I mean, I suppose the school could refer the matter to a social worker if there is no parental cooperation?
I do not know that it was the start of a pattern. I did a few crazy things as a kid that I immediately regretted and never did again. The school should certainly watch the girl’s behavior for a while, but I do not think that the school can or should step into the role of parent.
Maybe. Depends on what sort of intervention. There’s no evidence that the kinds of intervention seen in reality shows about addiction actually work. If you just mean “someone should step in and do something” I agree. This child needs help. Our society really sucks at that, unfortunately. This is why I say you’re bringing up a much bigger problem. And sure, we should work on that. But we’re extremely unlikely to fix that problem in time to help this child. And that sucks. But overturning this suspension isn’t going to help this child either.
It would fall under wrap around services, which more school systems are employing right now. Supporting families in a holistic way can actually do a lot of good for the student, their family, and the larger community. ONLY treating stuff like this
Did I say that? No. Why would you think I was suggesting that?
How about we look to professional fields that deal with mental health and rely on them. Do I know what that is myself? No, because I don’t pretend like I have all the answers on complicated issues like this. I do know that we should do the work to empower people that do have some answers.
Which is relevant and worth tackling. WE need to get out of the “it’s hard, so we should put it on the back burner and ignore it” mind set. That is how we got where we are with climate change. If we had been dealing with this shit since the 1970s, we might have come up with some solutions. Same here. As long as we push it down the road because it’s “too hard” the harder it’s going to be.
Once again… never said that.
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Which rights were violated? The suspension for illegal (functionally) public underage drinking? If she hadn’t broadcast it, the family might have been able to keep it low-key. But by making it public, she really didn’t give the school much choice but to act.
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I didn’t intend to imply that you meant that, but intervention in this context does have that specific meaning to many people, so I thought it was important to make that statement. I’m a recovering alcoholic and addict myself, and many of us instinctively bristle at that word.
Funny story, (Narrator: it’s not funny) true story:
In my Highschool, a group of the varsity football team would hold down guys on the JV team (one poor guy in particular), one guy holding each limb, and a fifth guy would then slap the guy in the face with his, you know. They called it “thwacking.” The one victim spoke up, the perps got a 10 day suspension and kicked off the football team (it was almost the end of the season), but then they still got to play other sports!!!
The victim got so harassed he had to change schools.
So, I don’t know if it answers your question, but I think at my old school, the answer would be, “hell, no.”
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It’s not. You have the 2nd amendment too.
I’m only half joking. A widespread misrepresentation/misunderstanding of the first and second amendment is the root cause of many of America’s current problems.
*IANAL
**I am not American
***I am aware I’m preaching to the choir.
EDIT for typo.
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Defending the right of 13 year olds to drink themselves to death in private is an interesting choice.
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Speech or not, we’re a lot more comfortable in the US with schools trying to regulate the off-campus activities of students in their own time than we should be.
I think there’s a compelling public interest in preventing on-campus bullying from being continued off-campus, but apart from that it needs to be pretty heavily limited.
A 13 year old was binge drinking… That’s a little more than a private family matter that we can pretend is not happening, because FREEEEEEEDDDDDDUMMMMMBSSSS matter more than the welfare of children.
Should we also ignore when kids come to school with bruises and other signs of obvious abuse? A child binge drinking it not a normal occurrence. Something is seriously wrong if that’s happening and it needs to be looked into for the welfare of the child. That is absolutely within the public interest.
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If a child comes to school with bruises we should send a social worker to investigate, not suspend the child.
If they were suggesting the child go to counseling or checking for abuse, that would be a reasonable approach. Not ‘Something must be done! Suspending them from sports for 45 days is something! Check the ‘consequences’ box!’
I never said that suspending her was the right move, so maybe read what I wrote? I’ve argued that she should be helped. But we generally prefer authoritarian punishments from our school systems, because so many people believe that we should not ever “violate” the authority of parents, which is ordained by god or some shit, whatever the harm to the child might be.
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