Well - posting here will surely turn the tide on this one.
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I think many polls just make the mistake of thinking this is a democracy.
32.68% of the votes in my state were worthless. If a proportional number of electoral votes went to Clinton, people would probably be a lot more motivated to get out and vote in red states.
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You think this is misery, buckle down for eight years of Trump.
And why do we have this misery right now? Oh, right, four years of Trump.
Fight through it and claw yourself back from it. I wish none of us would have had to, but we do. The only way out is through.
I’m involved with several different political organizations. I can think of just about anything I would rather be doing, but this is more important. Also trying to reach the many Trump supporters in my life and trying to rein them in at least a little. Anyone in a similar situation to me knows what I’m talking about.
Plus reach out to others, get involved, stay involved.
I can only hope.
This is not an academic issue to me. I have suffered deeply because of Trump and I’ll be damned if I have to suffer even more. The outcome of this election can be cataclysmic, but it doesn’t have to be and I sincerely hope it isn’t.
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Stop it.
You’re NOT helping anything by verbally attacking other people who are on the same side as you; that’s only going to alienate real allies and piss off people who are already fighting for their fucking existence.
Once again YOU are NOT the only person at risk, who is scared, who is hurting, who is angry.
You need to quit acting like it, and quit shitting on people here as if its “all our fault.”
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States that had John Engler and Scott Walker as governors, respectively? Now who hasn’t been paying attention?
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I am not verbally attacking anyone. Verbally attacking someone would be calling them a dick, for example, and I would never do that.
Rick Snyder and Scott Walker, both of whom were deeply unpopular and replaced with Democrats in the next election. Ron Johnson is the only Republican senator from either of those states during the Trump administration. But yes, these are swing states, they’re not solidly in the bag for Hillary Clinton or for anyone else. They are within easy reach of any Democrat who campaigns for President, assuming said Democrat actually campaigns in that state.
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John Engler was worse than Snyder, so I used him as an example. Even more uncharismatic - and he (along with Walker) was so unpopular he served multiple terms as governor…
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Whatever, dude.
You’re not “being cool” right now, and you know it.
I have a piece of advice you might want to take to heart, and then maybe take some much needed time away from the keyboard:
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Right now, in this very instance, it’s starting to sound like you are more worried about alienating Trump supporters in your life than alienating liberals who you have come to believe are to blame for Trump’s election. If I were starting to sound like that considering that idea itself is a politically motivated conviction with great potential for abuse by the organizations broadcasting it, I’d start analyzing my own media consumption aggressively and considering the effect that others are having on me. This is all I wish to say about behaviors on this BBS, but I really do have reasons for skepticism regarding the political angling and emotional manipulation I’m seeing in various competing media outlets and concerns about how that is being used to ultimately decide who gets to be hurt the worst and how we justify it if/when Trump or some equally abysmal creature ends up as our President.
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Understood. That’s what started this, I think. Just because some Washington insider thinks someone isn’t charismatic doesn’t make it so. And maybe not being a competent politician works to their advantage at the polls.
Maybe we’re talking around each other? Neither Wisconsin nor Michigan is in the bag for Team Blue. Reachable, easily. Certainly not hopeless. Clinton could have won these states if she had campaigned harder, or at all. Hopefully the Biden campaign can do better.
Anyway Nate Silver pretty much got it right, and I thought he had it right before the vote happened. The polls weren’t “wrong”, they were interpreted incorrectly. The polls said that it was a close election with a lot of uncertainty in it. And it was.
So you didn’t know.
If your version of hope is a belief that bad things can’t happen, it’s a pretty shoddy version of hope.
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Not really. I am deeply saddened and distressed that my family has turned into Trump supporters, and are no longer the people I feel any sort of connection to. I don’t blame liberals for the election when people actively voted for Trump, but “golly gee who could have seen it coming” really gets my hackles up. Not having seen it coming is one thing. Not learning from not having seen it coming is another. We can’t get complacent like it’s 2016 again.
I’m not making sense right now, but hopefully you can see where I’m coming from.
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Being right doesn’t make you not an irrelevant weirdo if you are right for the wrong reason.
She lost Michigan by 0.23% of the vote. If you are claiming that talking to Trump supporters somehow gives you the insight to figure out the final vote share to an accuracy of a quarter of a percentage point then I call bullshit. The idea that Trump’s victory was a certainty is depression-talk.
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But shitting on everyone (including voters who were not complacent and did their due diligence) is NOT an effective way to motivate people.
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Why? There is a lot of survivorship bias potential there and it puts one at risk of placing undue ill-questioned trust in people like Cenk Uygur, Krystal Ball, and ilk when they are in no way shape or form not part of “the media” themselves no matter how hard they pretend not to be part of a competitive “news media” form of entertainment in the name of anti-establishment values. This is something I certainly wish to guard against in myself at least it terms of how it affects my behavior, expectations, and how I treat others. That kind of entertainment/news/opinion outlet (regardless of the political affiliation) uses emotional manipulation in a very targeted way and the high-level communications experts working there think hard about how to use it and what they stand to gain from it.
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I don’t mean to do that. I’m sorry.
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Biden’s big asset relative to Clinton 2016 is that he’s not hated nearly as much as Hillary was. What many people fundamentally misunderstand is that comparing Clinton and Trump is that relative to Trump, Clinton was actually the one who ran the pro-Clinton, vote for me campaign, while Trump voters voted against Clinton. The media narrative about an enthusiasm gap, built up in countless anecdotes, did not line up with any systematic analysis of the situation. (I suspect because the media fixated on the most outspoken stereotypical maga hat wearers, not the majority of Trump’s vote.) Now, in 2020 this dynamic is reversed. Biden is running anti-Trump and Trump is running pro-Trump, his attacks on Biden being relatively weaksauce.
Will it work out for Biden? I don’t know, but compared to at this point in 2016 he’s not nearly as vehemently hated by right wingers as Clinton.
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We’re all struggling; I know it feels hopeless sometimes, but it’s not.
Dont let despair get you; the fight isnt over.
As Black folks fighting for equality have said for decades:
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Her odds nosedived because the vote share difference dropped from 7% to 3% after Comey’s intervention.
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I’m not putting unquestioned trust in those people, just pointing out that some people did see this coming, so it is possible.
If one person says Trump will win and another person says Biden will win, I will not take one position over the other and completely reject the other one. Certainly not immediately. I will consider both of them, and more importantly the reasoning behind both of them.
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