2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine (Part 1)

NATO could probably pay off a good chunk to go home, but they would have consequences if they did that.

But money and power are often the forces of why counties go to war. And it is the reason a lot of kids in the US enlist, thought most of them never expect they would be in an actual war.

It feels like a “both sides are preparing for and willing to wage war, which is bad” take. But also not a good one, as I don’t think NATO acted aggressive at all. Had Russia been a better neighbor, the counties who joined/looking to join NATO wouldn’t have felt the need to.

12 Likes

I get it.
And I get it that many Russian soldiers are conscripts.

And I still say: resist.

Russian soldiers still have agency, even if they are claiming their families are being threatened. Even if they are being threatened.

Why are they doing to their fellow humans what they would never do to themselves and loved ones. Why?

Money? Really?

Fuck that.

I know I posted this song somewhere on this bbs by the original artist, Edwin Starr, but fwiw and it bears repeating:

13 Likes

I get it. Especially when many of them don’t even want to be there. There appears to be infighting between units even. But Russia is also the country who hasn’t ever had a problem shooting traitors and deserters where they stand. :confused: Indeed, I believe some of the units have roles as enforcers within the Russian ranks.

So they stay, do a half assed job, and hopefully get money to use back home and not die. Though if those KIA numbers keep going up and if their positions start to get over run, they will be more likely to reassess retreat or surrender.

The good news is, history has many examples of determined defenders pushing back and being victorious over half-hearted invaders with larger numbers.

9 Likes

What the actual… I had better hopes for Francis, but I guess they were folly. Shit.

18 Likes

I’m no war historian, so I feel free to ask, were there many civilian atrocities on either side around the time of the Christmas truce(s)?

2 Likes

Unfortunately I doubt there’s ever been a large-scale military conflict in human history that didn’t involve atrocities against civilians.

But, to a large extent, the British and German troops in the trenches who were involved in the Christmas truces were fighting battles far from their homes, and were not seeing their own villages burned and families raped. So I guess that would make it easier to recognize the humanity in your enemies.

12 Likes

Kinda what I thought, so I don’t really expect a Christmas truce in Ukraine.

5 Likes
8 Likes
11 Likes

I totally agree. I’d just shoot myself if I was in their place.

3 Likes
14 Likes

Frank can fuck off. Help out or shut up.

13 Likes
13 Likes

No, make them do something worthwhile. If digging must be involved, let them plant trees in deforested areas. Since they are active in West Africa already, they should have a go at the Zai system.

5 Likes
12 Likes

I once met an older guy who was going to be forced to fight for Rhodesia. He fled at great material and social cost rather than fight and perhaps even die for something he knew was wrong. I can’t tell other people what to do with their lives but I can say I do respect that kind of moral integrity.

23 Likes
16 Likes

Re: Israel

Yeah, suddenly they realize who the real Nazis are.

Fuck Israel for playing footsie with Putin this long.

16 Likes

They didn’t care about his anti-semitism because he ran Russian Jews out of Russia to Israel. The more they grow the Jewish population, the more they can justify expanding settlements in the West Bank and taking Palestinian land. I had a friend a while back who was Russian and Jewish (and married to a Palestinian man, no less) who had cousins who had moved to Israel. She said they were highly nationalist and in support of the far right parties and of expansion in the West Bank, despite not wanting to learn any of the national languages of Israel. In other words, the growth of conservative, Russian Jewish immigration supported the political aims of Likud, etc.

26 Likes
20 Likes