2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine (Part 1)

Hunger is the best cook.

If you’re going to quote Cervantes, get it right! :wink:

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I wasn’t. I was translating a German proverb.

Also, Cervantes isn’t the inventor of that sentiment, however it’s expressed locally. cibi condimentum est fames

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I’ve been using that exact phrase since day one of this attack. No doubt in my mind that’s the stage we’re at.

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My father spent 30 some odd years in the Army with logistics for Civil Affairs (Military Occupation)

He retired a full Colonel without ever being deployed to a combat zone. Granted half of it was the post Vietnam/Pre Gulf War doldrums. But his highest decoration was for his skills with a computer, telephone and large mahogany desk during the Gulf War. Making sure people going over were equipped as well as possible.

Logistics is everything. Ignore at your own peril.

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birds aren’t real

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Ah, so that’s how Putin neutered England. He’s got them (or their rich shits) by their balls greed.

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To paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt in 1905: We have a lot in common with the Russians, but I don’t trust them as far as I can throw them. And have you seen these guys? They’re huge.

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You should always go right to the sauce.

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Making life more difficult for those already living a very difficult life. Fuck you Putin!

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has anyone here read Gerard Toal’s stuff on Georgia and the Russian near abroad?

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Appeasement has been tried before. What makes him think it will work this time?

The list of terms in the second article is more than Chamberlain gave Hitler (exaggerating, of course, but still).

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I heard it surmised that they aren’t using the expensive guided stuff because they didn’t think they would need it (remember they were supposed to have control of Kyiv in under a week), and they are holding it in reserve for if they end up having NATO at their door.

It could also be they just don’t have a lot of it to spare. Guided bomb money went to oligarch yachts.

My Grandpa was career Coast Guard Chief Warrant Officer and also in charge of purchasing.

The generals and fighters all get the glory in the history books, but the old adage of “An army marches on its stomach.” is true to this day.

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So you’re not one for the theory that appeasement “bought time” for Britain to rearm.

I’ll admit-- germany was not armed with nuclear weapons, nor was it expected to be. Russia still will have its nuclear arsenal when invading season rolls around in four years.

If the UK had planned it as a way to buy time, maybe, but they were caught pretty off guard with the invasion of Poland and then France. They definitely did not make good use of that time.

As for nuclear weapons, nobody wants this to turn into a nuclear war, but the existence of nuclear weapons shouldn’t be a reason for Ukraine to sacrifice its national sovereignty to an international bully with similar designs for Poland and Estonia, etc. The guy taking hostages is not going to stop at a small, symbolic victory that involves one of the hostages becoming his permanent bench.

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Britain and France’s choice of appeasement of Hitler in 1938 was fully understandable; but in hindsight, it was not just morally bad, but also pragmatically disastrous decision. Wehrmacht in 1938 was not ready to fight and win a major war, and the German generals knew this very well. They were justifiably anxious about Hitler pushing things too hard, and triggering a war too soon.

The Czechoslovakian army was small, but it was extremely well equipped. When Germany was allowed to grab the Sudetenlands, and then the whole of Czechoslovakia, the Nazis got all those tanks and rifles and artillery and munitions and, far most importantly, trucks intact and could immediately put them to use in Wehrmacht. Furthermore, they got Czechoslovakia’s industrial base, including lots of high-end armaments factories, intact and working. And they got to loot Czechoslovakia’s gold reserves, too, propping up their overextended and overstrained economy long enough to complete Wehrmacht’s training programs, set up the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and start rolling up Poland.

So yeah, appeasement in 1938 was a complete failure.

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They thought that the Maginot Line would protect them if push came to shove. Czechoslovakia was elsewhere to them. We cannot make the same mistake with Ukraine.

Of course, we have sanctions now that people in those days couldn’t even dream of. We can do this without turning it into a world war. But it can’t be done in a way that waves away Ukrainian sovereignty to fit the whims of the West. That’s just the narrative Putin wants.

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In that case that may be true, but pulling Russian vodka from shelves makes no sense. It is already bought and paid for. Continue selling it until stocks run out and then don’t order any more. Everything else is just stupid symbolism.

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