A guide to prisons for white collar criminals

boing
41

McVicar, the armed robber who became a sociologist, said that he thinks that criminals are mostly simply people who are very impulsive. They see what they want and grab it without considering the long term possibilities.

Unfortunately that is precisely what is levelled at traders and CEOs: the inability to consider long term effects. Which suggests that they have a criminal trait which they are able to keep within the law.

Redesigning society to ensure that impulsive behaviour always gets a negative reinforcement is left as an exercise for the reader.

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42

Okay… Are there, in fact, any Native Americans in their Prison Lite?

Or is it just cultural appropriation masking by white cultie guys too cracked for Scientology?

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43

Thanks for the link.

Is there a good “Christ, what an asshole.” gif out there yet?

44

At risk of feeding a trolley, I seem to recall the 3-year recidivism rate is around 70% right now, somewhat supported by the Bureau of Justice own website.
Which means we have around 30% “success” rate.
Of course there’s lies, damned lies, and statistics, but for a country so heavily weighted towards making life almost impossible for anyone with a criminal record I’d say the stats are surprisingly good!

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45

I have a feeling goatse might violate the site terms of use. :stuck_out_tongue:

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46

Or 30% of the prisoners die before 3 years… :clown_face:

47

Whenever I see “Native American sweat lodge”, 99% it turns out to be some greasy white guy with too many names and a “Big John” cult making money off of superficially using Native traditions.

And while Native Americans have a disproportionate percentage in prison, I’d wager that few of them get to attend that country club.

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48

Are you sure you’re not looking at the rearrest numbers, rather than the reconviction ones? Both are unreliable to a certain degree (witness the recent post here about the guy who turned himself in, was found not guilty, and then had the verdict overturned by the judge), but I would certainly expect us to apply the same standard to determining whether someone committed a crime both times they are charged with one. The 3-year re-conviction rate was under 50% in 1994 according to the BoJ page you linked. According to this PLOS article, the rate for 2005-2010 has further dropped to 45%.

As an aside, I don’t have time to read the full article right now but there’s a significant (I’m trying hard to not say “astonishing”) gap between 3-year reconviction and reimprisonment: 45% vs. 36%. What’s the deal with that?

Also wondering about the huge variation between the 2005-2010 aggregated data vs. the figure for just 2000: 66%

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49

Hell is other people, but the type of hell can vary.

50

Let the minorities into these prisons for rehabilitation and training new job skills (renewable energy tech since the coal workers won’t do it). Put the white collar assholes on an island somewhere surrounded by sharks and giant squids and make them survive. If they die off, oh well.

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51

The Steinbeck quote is part of it, but I think there’s something else. In the absence of a sense of community (where everyone is in this thing together) people only look at what they have, and therefor what they have to loose.

For instance, say I barely have two nickels to rub together. That’s poverty, and it’s crap. But, if I look at it like this: I’ve managed to save up two nickels to rub together, and I have a pot to piss in, I don’t want to lose those things and end up even worse off than I am now.

Mass revolt only works for cohesive communities. If we all go on strike, but only some of us come out the other side in a better situation, then it wasn’t really worth it. If my fellow Americans don’t give a shit about me as an individual, I can’t really throw in with them, as a community. I don’t trust that they will support me, just because I support them. In fact, the Trump/Kushner brand of American will gleefully screw other people over just because they enjoy it. In fact, I think some people will go out of their way to make other people miserable, for shits and giggles.

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52

If you think so, then for you, it is.

53

Well, the shoplifters rarely even get charged now, if they have not used threats or assault when they are tracked down, if charged, they get community service . . . where in this do you think they are rehabilitated by the state?. Their deciding to stop offending does not equate them being rehabilitated.

Practical you say?. Would you realise something practical even if it knocked you on the head and went through your pockets?. People who believe that anything society does to criminals “rehabilitates” them, talking about practicality?.

I scoff.

54

Nice ducking of the question. But you’ve now moved from “entertaining troll” to “self-righteous troll,” and that sort of troll-baiting isn’t much fun to watch, so I’ll spare the internets. Scoff in peace.

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55

The last episode of the 5-part series

aired last night. It’s worth watching the full series. Britain faced what we in the U.S. are still facing, over 100 years ago, and the result was the modern welfare state. They came together to make things better, instead of clinging to the selfish notion that we’re all ‘free individuals’. Plus, how Brits do reality TV is so much more educational and interesting. No whiny spoiled brats who did no research and learned no practical skills before starting the program (my personal pet peeve about U.S. reality shows).

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56

I saw one episode, and loved it. I do need to watch the others, because it was entertaining and educational, and the people displayed a great deal of empathy. It didn’t even feel like “reality tv” more like a documentary :slight_smile:

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57

Thanks, didn’t know about that! Now hoping I can watch online…

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58

Wait, rich white people go to prison?
Fun fact: empty “cells” get rented out as $220.00 a night air b&b’s.

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Capsule hotels: US edition

60

If I am a troll, it is only in so far as you in a group lack English comprehension, and I trolled that.

Just as you were trolling me to suggest I was advocating the death penalty. I did not, don’t believe in it any more than any of the other ineffective penal institutions.

What I did say is, the only “rehabilitation” that exists, is the criminal understanding their fault and doing the logical thing of atoning for it. The fact that I think nothing more superfluous than humans probably leads me a bit far there in HOW they should, but how else are they going to atone their fault?. Join a peace corp?.

Regardless, my contention is simply there is no such thing as outside intervention bringing about rehabilitation.

One of you referred to the community being prejudiced against certain groups, and this “forcing” them to crime, or even preemptively fitting them up when they are innocent (and there is no doubt of it being a thing), offering this as a justification for exhaustive rehabilitation efforts. Explain how you “rehabilitate” for that?. Nothing you do in a prison addresses that problem, does it?. The problem continues to exist even after you rescue the victims of it in the prison, you have given yourself a Sisyphean task. Emblematic of the piss weak mindset imo.

Another of you offer statistics “proving” people can be rehabilitated, another disputed them, but in fact they measured no such thing, they measured recidivism. People not stealing isn’t because depriving them of their liberty, cramming them in over crowded, under funded, brute enforced pens where once a month some fairy trots in to wave a magic wand and say “go thou, and steal no more”, made them think “It was selfish of me to take from others”.
They didn’t decide not to go back to stealing because some weak minded, well meaning part of society won’t look facts in the face and set up some systems that they themselves admit don’t work in 90% of cases.

The reasons people quit stealing are always as selfish, as self regarding, as the reason they started. They start again as soon as it suits them, every time. Someone who can rationalise the first theft, is a thief, and always will be.
Certainly nothing you or I can do or say will change them, any more than you could make me a thief. The best we could do is teach them to better mask their true self, which they do instinctively anyway.
Extreme events certainly could make me a thief and this is where the stupid obsession with “rehabilitation” does all of society harm. A well meaning stupidity, paying for an ineffective ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, instead of fencing, better paths, and vigilance at the top of the cliff.

Rehabilitation which you yourself know doesn’t work in the vast majority of cases? You KNOW this, and are condescending to me when I assert it?.

I scoff with the utmost contempt for your weakness. Mental and moral.

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