Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez harassed by followers of Ben "Gish Galloping White Supremacist" Shaipro


#21

You were the one that brought it up in the first place:

No-one else took issue with the basic truth of the description in the headline.


#22

Absolutely. I still think the term is inaccurate in this case. That’s my point, why use epithets that might or might not fit when there are so many around that do?


#23

You got several answers as to why the term was accurate, despite his being Jewish. That’s why I don’t think your bringing the issue up was off-topic or derailing. His embrace of many of the toxic positions (save one) and public discourse styles of the white supremacist alt-right go straight to how he addressed Ocasio-Cortez. It was a useful and clarifying discussion about the seemingly puzzling affinity of Shapiro for white supremacy and I appreciate your bringing it up.


#24

Honestly, I think your characterization of him as an ossified high school debater is both more accurate and more useful than the other.

Back to the main topic of this thread, we had a primary today, Ocasio-Cortez was in town this week stumping for a candidate in my district. It will be interesting to see if her appearance helped him, but TBH I think he was past help.

Her coattails came up short. The candidate she backed was polling 4th a couple of weeks ago, but it looks like he came in 5th. Sadly, the guy who won is a bluedog.


#25

Going all the way back to my Usenet days, I’ve found that bitter debate club nerdism goes hand-in-hand with “respectable” expressions of racism by commenters and pundits who style themselves intellectuals. I don’t see social justice advocates (who, to be fair, don’t have to defend the indefensible) having to resort to the same shoddy tactics.

Sorry to hear about the outcome in your district. While I’d like to think that a charismatic and successful DSA candidate can boost the chances of another candidate who wants to push the Dems back leftwards, it’s not always going to work out.


#26

There’s a conversation going on here that’s a little strange to me, because like many others, I understand that in the U.S., racism IS white supremacy. The U.S. itself remains what it’s always been, a white supremacist society.

Shapiro’s racist beliefs and statements may not be as extreme as those of say, David Duke, but they are white supremacist.

As Robin DiAngelo (author of a new and excellent book) puts it here,

I am white. When I give talks on what it means to be white in a society deeply separate and unequal by race, I explain that white people who are born and raised in the U.S. grow up in a white supremacist culture. I include myself in this claim, as I enumerate all of the ways in which I was socialized to be complicit in racism. I am not talking about hate groups, of which I am obviously not a member. And no, I don’t hate white people. I am addressing most of the audience to whom I am speaking, white progressives like me. . . .


Yet invariably, a white person raises the objection: I really don’t like that term! I associate it with the KKK and other white nationalist groups. Why can’t you use a different term? As a classic example of white fragility, rather than stretching into a new framework, I am asked by a white participant to use language that is more comfortable and maintains their current worldview. . . .


Many people, especially older white people, associate the term white supremacy with extreme and explicit hate groups. However, for sociologists, white supremacy is a highly descriptive term for the culture we live in; a culture which positions white people and all that is associated with them (whiteness) as ideal.


White supremacy captures the all-encompassing centrality and assumed superiority of people defined and perceived as white, and the practices based upon that assumption. White supremacy is not simply the idea that whites are superior to people of color (although it certainly is that), but a deeper premise that supports this idea—the definition of whites as the norm or standard for human, and people of color as an inherent deviation from that norm.

Is Ben Shapiro a white supremacist? Of course he is, just not to the same degree as other more extreme white supremacists.


#27

It’s kind of nuts how a first-time candidate almost no one had heard of three months ago is now being saddled with the responsibility for the future of the entire Democratic party.


#28

11th-doc-this


#29

It is hard to get used to these “opposite” sort of accusations, like conservatives “just want to shout down opposition”. Of course there are some that do, but the majority of shouting down and deplatforming these days does not seem to be coming from conservatives.

The latest quote I can find from B.S. on White supremism is the following, from 8/10/18-
“It’s not coincidental that people who spend all day talking about the supposed innate superiority of the white race are invariably brick stupid.”.


#30

He’s right. People like Shapiro know that there are much more subtle ways to express one’s white supremacist beliefs.


#31

What you said only works if all non-Israeli Middle Eastern countries are Palestinian, because he says that about all Arabs all the time. He also (as the link @Wanderfound says) regularly is racist against black people and other ethnic groups. To be clear, he regularly uses Zionism as an excuse for the eradication of all Arabs and doesn’t focus hate towards just that group.

He’s going to be less white supremacist than someone demanding a white enthno-state, but he is definitely a white supremacist. It would be extremely difficult to say otherwise since his policy positions and opinions both back white supremecist actions.

As far as I have seen his argument against the alt-right is also weak, usually framed as a no true Scotsman for constitutional conservatives and moving on because he wants to not be associated with his words on the same subjects.


#32

Like Jordaddy in re: non-gender-conforming people, he’s a sneak when it comes to expressing his bigotry. Also like Jordaddy, he couches things in a larger narrative of being “censored” by liberals and progressives, which in turn finds an affinity with the same story of false victimhood the more obvious alt-right hatemongers tell. Of course, despite they fact that they both think they’re the smartest people in the room, it’s pretty easy to see right through both of them.


#33

Very few prominent racists vocally self-identify as white supremacists, particularly among the subset that consider themselves “intellectuals.”


#34

If we choose to use the same language to describe a Ben Shapiro as we do a David Duke, then we can’t object when people call Nancy Pelosi a “socialist”.

She kind of saddled herself with it; I don’t think anyone forced her to stump for anyone. I do understand the attraction of accepting the invitations she did.


#35

I never claimed Shapiro was a Klansman, which is the word I’d use to describe David Duke. I said Shapiro is a racist and I think his views align very strongly with mainstream white supremacists. Obviously the “Jewish” thing precludes any possibility of full acceptance.

It’s one thing for a bright new figure on the political scene to stump for other Democrats. It’s another thing entirely to put all the credit or blame for the outcome of those races on said person.


#36

That’s a club membership, so not a matter for debate.

It’s another thing entirely to put all the credit or blame for the outcome of those races on said person.

Nobody has done that. The guy here was already in deep trouble for an impressive record of campaign finance violations (eg using political donations to pay his girlfriend’s rent), as well as having a famously poor record of showing up for work.


#37

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