I mean, not to be too results oriented, but I think it’s very hard to not admit that Pelosi knows how to handle this situation. Even as I was being super critical of Pelosi I always had to acknowledge that the speaker was likely better at this than I am. I’m never going to fully agree with Pelosi’s priorities, but they were stated clearly and what looked like “never-impeach” now looks a lot more like, “wait until you see the whites of Trump’s eyes.”
Late Night with Nancy Pelosi. Colbert, Meyers, et al. need to look out, the speaker is coming for their jobs.
It would be satisfying to see the vote, but then what? 45 could publicly confess to every crime in the book and the Senate will not remove him from office. So the story will be “Democrats tried to kick me out of office, but the Senate proved I was innocent!” This investigation and a vote is literally all we’re going to get out of this, so it’s worth it to delay just to keep the focus on the actual crimes.
This vote wouldn’t do that. They’re not talking about a vote to impeach, just a vote to formally begin an impeachment inquiry. I don’t understand all the subtle differences between what’s going on now and what would change in a formal inquiry, but that’s where we are. What ticked me off yesterday was Mike Pence saying this inquiry without a formal vote is unprecedented, and that’s bull crap. The Nixon impeachment investigation began without a formal vote, as did Clinton’s. They did both have formal votes to start the official inquiry, but I know in the Nixon situation, that vote came months after the informal inquiry began. From what I understand, the process was informal inquiry—>vote—>formal inquiry—>impeachment. Of course, Nixon resigned before that process reached impeachment.
So as I understand it, there doesn’t need to be a vote to start a formal inquiry. Nothing in the constitution or congressional regs or the law requires it. So we’re already in a formal inquiry, just not neccisarily following previous precedent.
There’s an expectation that there would be a formal vote because that’s what was done last time. And doing so can basically set out the rules and process for the inquiry. The hold up is based on how that was set last time. For Nixon and Clinton the opposition got the right to subpoena and call their own witnesses, but with the approval of the majority. The GOP is demanding the ability to do so without oversight or approval. Along with some other abilities and things like extra seats on an impeachment committee or some shit.
Basically they want to hand Trump the ability to obstruct, and they’re claiming any impeachment inquiry that doesn’t is unconstitutional a nd unprecedented. And GOP members are openly talking about using it to investigate Biden, Schiff, the origin of the Mueller investigation and butter emails.
The GOP doesn’t have the control to make the House do this. But those Red State Democrats are apparently skittish about a party line impeachment vote, and it will be party line unless they cave to the GOP. So they’re just rolling with a different process.
That too. But there’s apparently enough chickenshittery going on that it might not pass at all if they don’t.
So since they don’t have to, why not avoid the problem and maintain control? Plus if you keep ceding the point on congressional authority, then at some point the balance of power is completely fucked.
There’s issues with the current approach in regards to visibility and some reluctant committees. But trying to pass a resolution and set up a specific impeachment committee right now stands a good chance of turning the process into a joke.
But I think bootlickers often hate the person whose boots they lick. And everyone seems to say this is one of those cases (Jeff Flake said at least 35 Republicans would vote for removal if it was a secret ballot). I’m not saying they are going to grow spines, hearts or brains in the next few months, but if public opinion goes badly against Trump their fear might start pushing them in a different direction.
I don’t think he can get impeached in the Senate, because most of the sitting Senators are Trump bootlickers.
I tend to agree, but if that’s the case, it seems to me we definitely shouldn’t want the House Dems to rush to a vote on impeachment. Without removal, the only benefit from the impeachment proceeding is a detailed public record of Trump’s wrongdoing–ideally timed for maximum impact on next year’s election. The investigation won’t persuade the hardliners, but there are still enough independents out there who held their noses and voted Trump and who might be persuaded to hold their noses and vote the other way if Trump is shown on the record to be as thoroughly and venally corrupt as, well, every one of his words and actions suggests he is.
But building that record requires careful investigation and testimony.
