Now that’s a very interesting fact, thanks for pointing this out!
Quite interesting how short-lived people’s memory is…
(myself included, of course)
5 Likes
“I mean, a school system that churns out cops is probably better for society than a system that churns out junkies, but I’d argue that neither is a win in terms of education.”
Wait, now, we need cops! They aren’t a failure of the system. Research all over the world has found that one of the biggest needs for those in poverty is justice-- not just “not being abused by the system,” but having people (ie, cops) to actively protect them from the people who prey on them. If the stronger guy next door can take your food, your land, your children, at will, then you cannot escape poverty. A good police force is one of the greatest gifts that a functional society offers.
As another Brit, I can’t tell you how bizarre I find the idea of playing the national anthem before every single game is. Add that to America’s obsession with The Flag and you’ve got a shit-storm that most other countries on earth wouldn’t give a fuck about.
Trump’s press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, suggested Monday that their message had become muddled, saying that if “the debate is really for them about police brutality,” athletes should protest police officers “instead of the American flag.”
This was on TDS: the reporter then asked Huckabee Sanders to confirm that they should protest the police and she said “of course not”. Such bullshit from the WH, as usual.
3 Likes
I was about to object on the other side.
Most of the junkies I’ve known were good people. Most of the cops, not so much.
3 Likes
I’d agree with that. But the problem, and source of protest, is that “good” part.
So, contrary-wise: A bad police force is one of the worst curses of a non-functioning society.
7 Likes
It’s not from the fury of the murder-suicideer we expect the carnage, but from their regard to their own interest.
In order to make Smith right you have to take his statement as a tautology, that “self-interest” just means “whatever made the person want to do the thing they wanted to do the moment they wanted to do it.” But if that’s what self-interest means, it has absolutely no predictive power at all. You can’t guess how someone will act based on knowing they will act out of self interest because at any given moment their self-interest might tell them to throw themselves off a bridge for a reason no one else understands or give all their money to a charity or run away from society and build themselves a shack in the woods. We’d then describe any of those things as “self-interested” after the fact.
When it comes to people who own sports teams we tend to think they are motivated by money, but I think that’s because we have a mythology that people who have a lot of money are obviously people who go after money at ever opportunity. In reality, people who have a lot of money are mostly people who were born into a situation that furnished them with money, and their lives have instructed them that they can have whatever they want whenever they want.
I strongly believe this action was taken mostly because Trump tried to tell them what to do and they got into a clash of egos. Their “self-interest” was to act on impulse to sate their angry emotions because in their entire lives they’ve never had to learn to deal with not getting what they want right now.
3 Likes
“So, contrary-wise: A bad police force is one of the worst curses of a non-functioning society.”
Absolutely. I support the protests. I was just observing that cops --per se-- are not the problem. We have let racism grow unfettered and without impunity. We have relied on training protocols that teach police to be afraid and emphasizes force over de-escalation.
(BTW, how do I get it to quote you nice and neat in gray…I don’t usually comment…not sure what inspired me to suddenly do so this morning)
Highlight the text you want to quote… a little Quote button should appear.
3 Likes
My personal take on this is the flag-waving started to kick in around the time that H.W. Bush gave the green light to launch Operation Desert Storm, and intensified tenfold after 9-11 and preparations were made to invade Iraq.
Before the senior Bush, nobody over here really seemed to give much of a damn when terrorists were bombing German nightclubs.
4 Likes
I’m sure that good, thoughtful people become cops and soldiers, and that would still happen if schools prioritised turning out good, thoughtful people.
But there’s no denying that police forces and the military are quite happy with schools that teach kids not to think.
1 Like
Like a lot of people I was upset with the protest. i canceled my Sunday ticket and said a lot of things in anger that I probably should not have said. After taking the time to think things over I realize I don’t need to be Angry. This is no more than the equivalent of a “bad marriage” and as such I think the NFL and I should go our seprate ways and wish each other the best.The players can continue their protest and I can continue to enjoy football.There is college football and High School football to watch. The athletes may not be as talented but as for all sports equally matched opponents make the game worth watching.
The players have said they mean no disrespect and i will believe them, However I feel disrespected as a veteran and hope they will believe me.
I hope we can all work together on the issues that made this protest happen and come together as Americans.Football is a sport and serves as a useful distraction from day to day problems but real life requires we all put aside our differences and work to make things better. I think the biggest problem when things happen is we all go to extremes, lets not do that now, lets not be divided, lets come together as Americans who love our Country and our Flag. I think we can all agree on that.
Thank you for posting that link. I did not know how it went from sitting to taking a knee, but I correctly interpreted it as a sign of respectful dissent - respect for the principles the flag is supposed to stand for, and dissent recognizing that too often the flag is the patch on an oppressor’s shoulder.
Interestingly that element of purposeful respect has changed the opinion of this protest among many people I’ve spoken to. Sitting seemed contemptuous and disrespectful to them, which seems to have obscured more important issues in their minds.
Being on the right side is not an excuse for bad tactics. Taking a knee is good tactical thinking.
4 Likes
Too late.
Thanks for your service; but the players are using their platform to protest police brutality and racial injustice, not any symbols of liberty themselves or those who fight to defend our country.
15 Likes
See, they said it wasn’t about disrespect or veterans right from the start. Some people are interested in making this about those things specifically to divide us.
11 Likes
I’m surprised that you, as a vet, missed this link upthread.
10 Likes
I’m not.
5 Likes
As a retired member of the USAR. I keep pointing out. I served to protect the very right Colin Kap and others are expressing. Kneel away!
Cc @milliefink thank you for linking that. Because I think it is important to point out how heexpressly wanted to be respectful but still bring attention to his cause.
12 Likes
This one seems relevant, too:
Gets into flag discussion at about 1:30.
2 Likes
