I mean this in a nice way as someone who’s income has been massively impacted by the Boeing scandal trickling down to my shop-
Don’t give the airlines any more ideas on how to change proven design and especially how to make flight more miserable.
If making people miserable was a science, the people who control how we fly are the fucking PHDs in misery by design
Finally, a well reasoned statement.
I rode on a bus that was set up this way once. Once I got over the initial shock of it seeming weird I found it infinitely better than current airplane seats.
Why do we expect disabled people to disclose their medical history premptively to strangers, but non-disabled people get a pass? There was an accomodation available and she used it. Asking people to disclose ahead of time is ableist. I know that is hard for non-disabled people to understand, because ableism is woven deep into our society. Do you disclose your medical history every time you get in an elevator instead of taking the stairs? How about when you use a curb cut-out to cross the street? No? Then why should a disabled person have to do so to use a provided accommodation that she paid for?
And why is it so hard for people to understand that a violent man using violence when he can’t have his way is a societal fucking problem, and blaming the victim just lets him get away with it. If a tall person sits in front of you in a theater, is it okay to hit them until they become less tall?
A good question I wish more people would ask.
I can see the benefit though, especially for the super long haul flights which are becoming more common on Australia.
that seems different. i’d have considered duct taping to the wall of the next rest stop in that situation 
“She reclined her seat…she had it comin”
Facts to consider. FACTS (means these are NOT debatable).
I’d say that’s most European internal flights I’ve been on. It works perfectly.
It really is. With so much ableist terminology deeply ingrained into everyday speech to a culture that tries very hard to ignore that disabilities even exist (to the point where many refuse to recognize a disability that they can’t see), it’s really challenging.
I’m usually (not always) am able to catch things like racism and sexism, but I find that my ableism has been incredibly hard to shake. I’m trying to do better, though.
Along similar lines, I’ve witnessed a rather heated argument over saving seats in their boarding process. After it was all over I asked an aside to the flight attendant about their policy: “not officially allowed, but we try not to get involved”. Which is relevant…
…because this is my experience also. Or in some rare instances, someone objects and either it’s resolved or gets dropped. IOW, the vast, vast, VAST majority of disagreements are resolved successful without incident. I think being trapped with your nemesis is a big incentive for everybody to work things out to everyone’s satisfaction. Losing our marbles over edge cases seems to be the internet’s specialty. And describing the vast majority of flyers as “assholes” for reclining seems like spitting in the wind- like a grammar crusade, Prescriptive is helpless in the face of Descriptive.
Me, if I feel I need to recline (I find occasionally varying the angle of sitting helps with my back pain), I slowly edge it back maybe a cm, just to sort of give a heads up, pause then slowly the rest, it’s just golden rule stuff. I don’t mind if someone in front of me reclines, just don’t do it suddenly with the force of a pro wrestler. Give me a chance to get adjusted and get my coke out of the way.
I do not follow. Woman records evidence of her situation, airline threatens her and forces her to destroy the evidence, therefore she must have been lying about her situation?
If may exaggerate your position for comedic effect: If the woman is telling the truth about being the victim of hellish conditions created by the airline’s policy and her poor choice of passengers behind her, why would the airline’s representative make her destroy her record of those conditions?
This incident is surfacing a lot of useful info from people with medical conditions that make it important to lean their airline seats back.
Here’s the airline experience from where I sit:
We should all be clamoring for the federal government to mandate sane amounts of space for airline seats, not fighting each other over who’s the asshole. We know who the assholes are (hint: they are not passengers), and we know the competition between airlines means the only way to solve this is creating a level playing field through regulation. “Flying is a privilege, not a right” should apply to airlines, not passengers.
This type of annoyance happens when people are near each other. People should be able to be near each other, confront each other humanely, and manage conflict. Air travel is just where we see that people are losing these skills, and no longer even believe they need them.
When i wrote that all i had seen was her video.I thought they were threatening to arrest her based on her interaction with the other passengers. I never doubted that this woman was was the victim of this dudes poor behavior. IMHO she has every right to record this interaction I don’t think the airline had the right to make her delete the video. But when I watch that video I feel that there may have been more to the interaction. In the article she states that he asked her to move she did then she moved her seat back i think these people had an argument over the seat back and then this guy lost his mind that is my opinion.
Even if he asked and she said “no,” once he started punching the seat not only is he the asshole, he’s a bigger asshole. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s the kind of guy who refuses to give up his priority seat for the elderly/people with disabilities/heavily pregnant on public transportation, too.
Seats recline. People recline them. People have all sorts of reasons they want or need to recline them-- one of my family members has back problems such that being able to recline the seat slightly makes all the difference between being able to ride comfortably, and being in pain for days after the flight. They have no obligation to explain themselves to anyone.
If they were sitting in front of you and couldn’t recline enough, probably something would have to be done so someone switches seats, which might require getting a stewardess involved. But there’s no reason it can’t be handled without everyone staying polite.
Punching the seat is not only assholery, it is arguably assault, and the actions of a petulant child. He’s deliberately shaking this woman, it’s very aggressive. He clearly has no respect for her as a fellow human being. If it was truly an issue for him such that he couldn’t fit in the seat, he should have asked the flight attendant for assistance in a civil manner.
yeah that is not fact. that is opinion.
If the airlines could do away with the chairs, they’d be very happy. (Passengers, not so much.)
