As an outsider (over here in sunny Europe), it’s really hard to understand. Bad stuff happens, and most reasonable people seem to think something should change. But a very small number of Mister44s stand up and make a lot of noise, and everyone else gives up. It’s very very sad.
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Sole purpose? I use guns at least once a month. So far I haven’t killed anyone. I must be doing it wrong. Millions of people must be doing it wrong.
You mean like the UK which BB has posted about horrible censorship, internet, and surveillance laws to name a few?
I guess it isn’t too dark over here, as two BB Editors that I know of moved to the US from Europe.
OH - I missed this. Quadrupled sense when? The 1970s? We has just passed a big control bill in 1968 (Gun Control Act). There was another in 1986 FOPA, Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988, Gun Free School Zones Act 1990, Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act 1993 (this set up the NICS program), Federal Assault Weapons Ban (1994-2004). That was just the major Federal laws. Many states added new laws too. So we passed more laws and yet mass shootings increased. Hmmmm… Guess we need MORE LAWS!
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There’s a lot of guns whose sole purpose isn’t killing (flare guns, starter pistols, competitive marksman rifles, potato guns, etc. all of which require a FOID card in some states), but this is besides the point.
Sure, guns were invented for the intention of killing, originally. So were rockets. We put probes in space now with them.
The killing argument could be a moral one, if you think the government should dictate policy decisions solely off morals (whose morals?) and not statistics. It could also be a matter of distaste, which is valid, just not rational. @adonai I do think some gun owners use guns as a proxy, much like car owners, and a wide variety of other pursuits as well. I don’t like it, but I’m not going to suggest laws to punish people I don’t like. (Is this what you are suggesting, or are you just trying to smear the other side of the debate?)
As an afterthought here: I see gun violence as a symptom. We can treat the symptom, if we decide as a society that that’s the best way forward. We could also treat the problem. We could do both. Other countries seem to have done a mix and had some success.
Aw, poot, who’s going to look at the 250th post. But Wonderella has a good take if you have made it this far…
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Your asshole politicians passed populist idiot laws which either didn’t work or made things worse. The problem isn’t legislation, it’s idiot politicians making fucking stupid laws.
You are not special.
You are not exceptional.
You are ignorant.
This is a solved problem.
Get off your high horse, show a bit of fucking humility - and humanity - and ask for help. And not this “oh yeah, well what would you do” bullshit, either.
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I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. The 1968 law had lots of “common sense laws”. The Brady act put into place the background check system everyone thinks is a good idea.
A solved problem? Oh I had no idea Europe and the other countries you mentioned were crime free utopias. I missed that. I guess the “Safe a life, surrender your knife” campaign in the UK was about something other than violent crime.
The US isn’t perfect. It has issues. I honestly think a big issue has to do with our racial inequality which we are slowly dealing with. I don’t think it is coincidence that the population suffering from the biggest wealth gap is also the one suffering from the worst crime. But I guess it is easier to blame a hunk of metal and plastic vs multiple layers of a fucked up system.
The US won’t adopt UK or Australian type laws because they saw what the registration system lead to. You won’t get some of those laws because like or not, there is the 2nd Amendment and it isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. So some of your suggestions isn’t any more legally doable than giving back all the power over the former British Empire to the Queen. So there is little point in suggesting fantastic laws that could never be passed here.
Some of the other suggestions are perhaps doable, such as requiring a NICS check for all sales, even private. But I really don’t think that will affect the crime rate much and I gave the reasons why. As I pointed out, overall our violent crime and gun murders have DECREASED in most places since the mid 90s with out sweeping gun reform. Some other suggestions about having better social nets are probably good ones. I personally think decriminalization or out right legalization of all or most drugs would also reduce violent crime. But even if we magically removed the tools of violence, the reasons for it are still there and they will resort to new forms. What ever the next effective means is.
But this isn’t the simplistic issue some people want to make it out to be.
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Look at that list of countries. Look at America.
I know what I’m talking about.
Obvious trolley is obvious.
Do you understand what “amendment” means in that sacred phrase “2nd amendment”? Do you remember what happened to the holy 18th Amendment? Do you recall what happened to the Constitution with the 1st Amendment?
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Also, do you know what @Mister44 is referring to with Australia, and why it might be politically untenable in the U.S.?
You should have no problem explaining then. For that matter, you should have no problem enumerating what all those countries have in common that the U.S. isn’t doing.
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My comment was directed at the laws we passed and you blowing them off not even knowing what they did.
Comparing vastly different cultures, economies, laws, systems of government, etc like if we just had better gun laws we would look just like the others? That is rather naive, don’t you think? Sounds like the beginning of the Iraq war. “Just make them a democracy and everything will be unicorns and rainbows.”
Any law you want passed that goes too far could use the 2nd Amendment to repeal it. So the first thing you would have to do is repeal the 2nd Amendment.
Repealing amendments - especially one of the original Bill of Rights - is going to take a huge paradigm shift. While possible, it is not very likely in the foreseeable future. You will have better luck having some Supreme Court Judges die and new ones who don’t like the 2nd Amendment and then rule new laws as Constitutional that the current judges would rule other wise.
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Actually 2 years old is the theoretical minimum age for a shotgun licence, as they need someone who has known them for two years to countersign the application. Under 14s must be supervised with firearms.
And you are right about "Gun Free " UK, the two small counties I live on the border of have 97,000 licenced guns.
I live in an area where gun-love runs pretty strong and deep, but is also abnormally liberal complete compared to surrounding environs (drop of blue in a red bucket). That is totally what a load of gun rights advocates and anti-all-guns-people are saying.
The rest of what you suggest is still based on the misconception that the only reason anyone ever goes on a mass-shooting rampage is that they’re mentally ill in the vaguely-defined-but-convenient sense of being “unhinged” and simultaneously not having any kind of reasoned criminal motivation. I’m not saying mental health issues shouldn’t be addressed but it’s not the defining factor in what are still statistically rare mass shootings. Most shootings aren’t even mass shootings. Active shooter situations should be reduced, but better mental health services isn’t targeted enough to the problem.
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I’ve made many posts, suggesting far more than just improved health care.
Nope, I’ve posted about that too, while this specific post of mine uses “unhinged” as shorthand for generically “mentall unstable”, I did post a link earlier to an article on the motivations. Psychologists have looked at the motivations of rampage killers, and their motivations tend to be a toxic mix of a desire to die, and in doing so gain the notoriety and recognition that they failed to get in life. It’s somewhat well documented, given the number of cases that there has been. The killers rarely meet the definition of psychosis.
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Of course, that’s moving the goalposts. If you concede that it’s reasonable to test people for access to guns, then the finer point is “what kind of test do we want?” But lets agree on the fact that it’s reasonable to test in the first place.
“Proper, well working order” is clearly not the way gun access works in the US at the moment.
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America: What the fuck?
oh! Oh! I know this one.
It’s guns. But you’ll do nothing about it, don’t worry.
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This whole thread has been a game of moving the goal posts, its kind of amazing really.
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I only addressed the one, thanks.
Not psychiatrists or therapists. Not always the same thing. Research psychology studies human behavior and is not necessarily immediately concerned with pathology. They’re not always the people who are on the front lines of treatment and diagnosis. Just because human behavior can be understood in broad trends, it doesn’t mean it’s extendable to individuals. Because shit’s way more complex than that.
We should also note that at that point we did not have a standing army because the founding fathers didn’t really want one. So militias were it for defense of the country. That along with muzzle loaders being the firearm of the day has changed quite a bit since then. Why is it so bad to go back and rethink things in to fit a much different word today than it was 200+ years ago?
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We have laws on the books that would keep all these guys from purchasing firearms, IF we had a properly functioning mental health system in this country. And IF we had properly functioning background checks.
Of the gun-deaths in this country, suicide is number one and drug-related crime is number two. If we could attack the root causes of both, we might find that the guns become irrelevant. Or, we might at least gather enough data in the process to guide our next efforts.
I want what’s best for the human beings in this country. Maybe banning all the guns would be good, but I get the sense that this country might be more deeply malfunctioning than that, and that the fix might not be so straightforward.
In my neighborhood, there has been a spate of burglaries where the criminals smash their way into the house using bricks found in people’s back yards. No one here is pushing to ban bricks.
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Also, CNN says this guy in TN didn’t have a real gun?
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