Once I learned how bad chicken pox can be I feel I got lucky even though I had it. And I had an uncle who was in a wheel chair from polio (and I am not that fucking old). Dear anti vax idiots ask your parents and grandparents how many of their childhood friends died because of diseases you didn’t experience but thanks to you your kids are now at risk of getting again. Ask them if they think vaccines are bad. I am surprised they haven’t disowned you already.
I should go get a shingles shot as it seems to be not fun to have.
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It has nothing to do with refusing either. I accept the science. I don’t agree with the virtue and morality of using legislative might to force the decision on others. No matter how misguided they are. The ends do not justify the means of taking peoples ownership of their bodies on a moral ground for me. It’s kinda fascist when the state says it’s for the greater good and that it knows what is better for you than you do.
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Your very idea destroys the concept of free society. That’s the problem.
Your definition of a free society is no different from Galt’s Gultch, ie literally fantastic.
Why don’t you talk about how taxes are literally slavery? The government is forcing you to give it some of your money after all.
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The point is taking ownership of peoples bodies by the state and forcing them to have them by threat of the state is tyrannical and wrong. It’s not others choice for the person. For the same ethical reasons no one has the right to say a woman can’t have an abortion.
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No, my idea accepts the norm that members of a free society have the power to self preserve and self protect. You have the right to choose to participate or go somewhere else.
Just as you do not have the right to run around stabbing whoever you want, neither should you have the right to willfully hurt others by serving as a fomite/source of contagion, particularly when there is no demonstrable downside to prevention.
Now, should you be able to demonstrate that vaccination would harm you in any medical fashion, I’m more than willing to accept you as a member of our herd (and one that needs particular protection). If you’re just an asshat that doesn’t understand immunology, and doesn’t buy into herd immunity, then you can fuck your ignorant self off to Madagascar.
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That might be the point you want to make, but it is not the point you are making.
Legislative solutions to this issue may be controversial, but you are arguing that the choice to vaccinate has no consequences outside of the family who make that choice. That argument is wrong and dangerous. You should back right away from it.
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There is one very large difference - if a woman has an abortion, she has no chance of having a direct harmful effect on other families. If she refuses vaccines for her children, and enough others follow her lead (and there are sizable enough numbers following that lead, to the point where diseases are making comebacks), she can, and probably will, have a harmful effect on others.
There’s an old saying, “The right of your fist stops at the tip of my nose.” This is a form of fist aimed at others, whether deliberately or otherwise.
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Package deal fallacy.
Moving the goal posts.
Using irrelevant assumptions to discredit
Bad form old chap.
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I’m sorry I have a different opinion than you. How silly of me.
Then the argument that abortion belongs to the woman because it is her body is wrong, since this other case says it’s not.
There bodies are there own.
This exactly. I’m probably in the wrong as well as attempting an argument with someone with a passionate viewpoint and little knowledge to back it up with never goes well.
May I suggest @PFKA_GLSPX, that you read up a bit on how “herd immunity” is a very real thing, and how vaccination/immunity is both an individual and a community protecting method of disease prevention. If you don’t/can’t understand that then this is just a completely useless argument.
If you’re arguing that you should have the right to willfully expose vulnerable members of society to diseases that had been almost eliminated, then there’s I’d like to similarly argue that I should be able to shoot my gun in the air freely as there’s statistically little chance that one of the rounds is actually going to hit someone when it comes down…
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I loved your post and I’m happy I got to like it before a mod sees it!!! 
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C’mon now, Glis;
Now it’s my turn to chide you for knowing better.
Sadly, no such thing exists.
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I do. The strive for it appeals to me though.
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Why is Pasteur illustrated as a red-nosed drunk apparently trying to distill hooch?
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That is a weak argument, because abortions only affect the mother, and on a very abstract level the child that could have been born (though arguably the same logic could be used to paint every penis-haver as a Stalin).
When you choose not to vaccinate, you are also choosing to expose everyone that interacts with you to an environmental hazard that they can’t effectively counteract. You are making a choice that impedes the freedom of everyone around you and possibly puts their life and liberty at risk. Your choice is not made in a vacuum; it limits (many) others choices.
You’re describing an ideal, and ideals are great, but it is impossible to build a fully functioning society around a rigid ideal (at least any that we have thought of so far). You have to do a cost / benefit analysis and determine when it makes sense to compromise the ideal for more stability. Drunk driving is one of those issues, because you make yourself a danger to everyone else on the road in a way they can’t effectively control for. Abortion is arguably one depending on how you view the rights of fetuses (I come down on if they can’t think then they’re just tissue myself).
But vaccinations most definitely are. There is a large body of evidence showing how a lack of vaccinations are directly leading to deaths, cutting off entire lives full of choices, so we’re already compromising your ideal in our society, and all we’re getting for it is misery and suffering. We might as well reconfigure it such that there is some limit on choice but no one is dying horrible painful deaths they otherwise probably wouldn’t.
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Indeed!
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