Antifa vs Anti-Fascist Nitpicking

A notion, please contribute thoughts; The problem isn’t stance, the problem is the OG political attachment of the term to Antifaschistische Aktion, a Communist organization. Yes, it’s a fairly trite attachment when one is anti-fascist, but when positioning one’s self within a sphere of debate the attachment is a bit too indelible to debate with Fascists or Authoritarians, opening one up to not just being Anti-Fascist but also being Pro-Communist.

Doesn’t this attachment give those opposed to it ammunition?

No, not really, because they are going to make that accusation no matter what. But running for it for that reason feeds into the incredibly long history of letting red baiting drive decisions which consistently feeds the far right.


I’m not seeing much overlap in the Venn diagram of people who 1) know that, 2) care about it and 3) don’t hold the mistaken assumption that fascism and communism are the same thing.


well there’s your mistake


Hmmm, I can’t agree. Take this article we’re talking about as example. I agree with this article and what it’s saying. However, from the stance of ‘no matter what’ the article is moot, otherwise who is it trying to clarify the subject to?

The problem with that POV is that it’s not just me. The article itself is an attempt to debate fascists.

People who are not fascists, but who are otherwise wary of antifa because they do not really get what it is about. There are a lot of people with low levels of politcial engagement who are neither fascist nor antifa.


Really :confused:

When will the pro-fascist response appear on BB?


Yet when you look at more modern anti-fascist groups (most of the ones from the last 70 years) they aren’t all communist (In the wider sense). However, when you look at anti-communist groups you will have a hard time finding one that isn’t dominated by fascists. Genuine moderates prefer to call themselves anti-extremist.

I will save the debate about where anarcho-communists and libertarian Marxists fit into this and how Communism has become all about Marxism Leninism for later, but the black flag on the Antifa logo represents anarchism and we don’t have a good relationship with M-Ls unless there is a bigger threat.

The last time I tried to debate with a fascist, back when I was young and naive, I got punched by them for it. They think I am a degenerate* so why shouldn’t I defend myself against them by associating with like minded people?

* transgender, recent ancestors were GRT, anarchist, disabled and on welfare.

I always assumed it was right wing newspeak, trying to deprive us the language to describe ourselves.

That is pretty close to how I have always pronounced it, but I remember when British Antifa groups started forming out of the remains of AFA. I’ve been in this fight for so long I have almost nothing left to give, but I have to keep fighting because my life depends on it.

British TERs became anti-Antifa a few years back, which is probably why they tend to have connections with far right groups.


The thing is though Antifa maybe be adjective anti-fascist but they aren’t the entirety of anti-fascist. The White Rose, for example. Amazing and powerful anti-fascists, not related directly to Antifa at all, other than being anti-fascist. Their methods are very different from one another and, personally, I fall into the White Rose brand of activism.

What about just calling these groups anarchists? I liked that previous designation. It doesn’t matter what the name is, it’s a desire to say the current world is bullshit (often morally corrupt bullshit) and they’d like to change it. The goal of all these groups is to put sunlight on what is wrong. If they piss off people or threaten people with their name it is a success. We’re now talking about fascism in the U.S., so “Antifa” works in our current world problem.

The current world power will always call them a threat even if they name themselves “harmless”.

While I’ve never been particularly left-wing, centrist would best describe my position, back in the late 70’s I definitely aligned with the Anti-Nazi League here in the U.K., siding with punks etc against the National Front skinhead faction. The irony with the skins is that most of them were heavily into reggae and ska, very definitely Black music!
These days I’m more than happy to be seen as Antifa, it’s the only position to adopt in today’s political climate.


“amazing,” perhaps, “powerful” no

they were hunted down and slaughtered

there’s a certain kind of privileged liberal that seems eager to watch people martyr themselves, as if our suffering magically solves problems or our pain is an end in itself


Still, Anti-fascist but not Antifa. You have your heroes, I have mine. That’s a different subject.

It’s simple, really. I refer to myself as Anti-fascist. Anything else historically has a group and political agenda backing it up. This includes Antifa. Deleting the “schist” carries the baggage of political attachment. If that’s what people want to express for themselves individually that’s fine, but I’ll assume they’re a communist if they do.

I am allowed to assume that getting hup up over little theoretical connections to communism like that makes you a McCarthyist, or do only you get to decide that sort of thing?


Well okay, now you’re waay out of your eyes regarding what is wrong or right.

Communism is fine. Despotic leadership is what I think you mean to be wrong.

Helpful Reading: The Benefits of Communism | International Business
(key points are indicated in a large green box on top of the page)

Hope it’s reasonable to suggest you’re too caught up with absolute statements. I value the pride in not trusting groups, and agree with you on the flaws of groups for their inherent corruption, but I think the summary of everything you’ve stated here is simply: You don’t like Antifa.

Go with that anti-Antifa feeling more honestly and without trying to prove it less through unprovable rationalizations that include broad statements that ALL groups historically have similar flaws.

Your last line about someone being a communist is a big indication of yourself being influenced by media and government rhetoric. Just look up the many great minds of the 1800s-1950s who were communist in thinking.

How about simple terms like “Resistance” or “Underground”?


(on preview: looks like @chenille got a similar comment in right before i posted - cheers)

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It’s about time to start quoting Gandhi and MLK


A bit off topic but how amazing would Dom DeLuise and Wilt Chamberlain be in a film on them.

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