Antivax GOP Kentucky governor exposed his kids to chickenpox on purpose so they'd get sick

#43

I am sorry, but I feel you are mistaken about what is standing in the way of polio eradication.

My views on religion in general seem to line up with yours, but in this specific case, I believe that the CIA’s use of vaccination programs to collect DNA while hunting Bin Laden really caused the backlash, that religious fundamentalists exploited and continue to exploit.

That was a monumentally harmful program that will take a few generations to recover from, provided they do not do it again that is.

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#44

I certainly agree WRT the CIA, but the problem predates that monumental bit of stupid assholery.

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#45

Hey Doc. Just saw this.

MMR vaccination lowers the risk of autism by 7%. Apparently- measles wrecks a kids immune systems for years afterwards.

“In the current study, researchers examined data on 657,461 children. During this time, 6,517 kids were diagnosed with autism.

Kids who got the MMR vaccine were seven percent less likely to develop autism than children who didn’t get vaccinated, researchers report in the Annals of Internal Medicine.”

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#46

Depends on the specific circumstances, but if those countries had different treatment regimens and statistically better health outcomes than the US, hell yes I’d be interested in what they were doing. The US is very good at many things, but we’re certainly not the best at everything.

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#47

Two things spring to mind.

  1. I’ve yet to ever come across an actual pediatrician who has said “vaccines are bad”. Not one. I’ve talked to some that prefer prescription drugs or homeopathic methods for treating bug bites, scraps, bumps, bruises, and the common cold; yes. But never one that said “don’t ever get vaccinated for:…” where a vaccine exists. So why in the fuck does anyone listen to ANYONE that isn’t a fucking doctor when it comes to this subject?!?

  2. it’s Kentucky. Fucking entire state filled with a majority of god damn assholes. Don’t think I’m being fair? Think I’m over generalizing? I present to you exhibit A and the prosecution rests…

image https://media.tenor.com/images/37488a360e62fdba56d129feda54d224/tenor.gif

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#48

That kind of result has been sen in a few previous studies, but never at statistically significant levels. Since the most recent understanding of the pathophysiology of autism suggests that it is caused during early pregnancy, certainly before 5 months, I’m not sure I buy it. It is unquestionably true that measles devastates the immune system, though. All Cause infectious morbidity and mortality is significantly elevated for up to 2 years following an infection.

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#49

Yes, that’s true. For better or for worse, the US is pretty much committed to this strategy now, so there are few options other than widespread use of the shingles vaccine to address the uptick in shingles cases.

Another note: It’s already been shown that the attenuated virus from the varicella vaccine can itself sometimes cause shingles in people who were vaccinated with it (though usually in a milder form). As there are currently no old folks who were vaccinated with it as children, it will be interesting to see whether the generations of vaccinated kids do develop shingles in large numbers down the road or not. No way to know at this point.

#50

Speaking as someone from, at least for the next week, a first world country, here is what my universal healthcare provider has to say, Why can’t things be simple?

Why isn’t the chickenpox vaccination part of the routine childhood immunisation schedule?

There’s a worry that introducing chickenpox vaccination for all children could increase the risk of chickenpox and shingles in adults.

While chickenpox during childhood is unpleasant, the vast majority of children recover quickly and easily. In adults, chickenpox is more severe and the risk of complications increases with age.

If a childhood chickenpox vaccination programme was introduced, people would not catch chickenpox as children because the infection would no longer circulate in areas where the majority of children had been vaccinated.

This would leave unvaccinated children susceptible to contracting chickenpox as adults, when they are more likely to develop a more severe infection or a secondary complication, or in pregnancy, when there is a risk of the infection harming the baby.

We could also see a significant increase in cases of shingles in adults. Being exposed to chickenpox as an adult – for example, through contact with infected children – boosts your immunity to shingles.

If you vaccinate children against chickenpox, you lose this natural boosting, so immunity in adults will drop and more shingles cases will occur.

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#51

This would leave unvaccinated children susceptible to contracting chickenpox as adults, when they are more likely to get a more serious infection, or in pregnancy, where there is a risk of the infection harming the baby.

The case presented for not vaccinating chickenpox is literally given as protection for unvaccinated children who are at a greater risk for infection. And the rise in shingles predates the vaccination program, and there is a vaccination for shingles in adults. So instead of vaccinating for both diseases, the NHS is choosing to not vaccinate children or adults because of the risk to the unvaccinated. And they have chosen to rely instead on mass exposure of two diseases that kill people versus elimination. That’s not something to cheer.

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#52

Does the chicken pox vaccine prevent shingles? I haven’t found any sources making this claim.

#53

The Belgians? Some of whom are possibly members of this international/very unparochial community. And if one’s attitude to medicine is “who gives a shit what other countries do?” then one’s own country may over time miss out on some interesting advances. But, hey, you guys wait till some US scientist discovers it before you act, that’s fine, I’m sure. :wink:

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#54

Eh, I very much dislike anti-vaxxers, but I really don’t see this as that bad. As others mentioned, it was kind of a thing to do back in the day, get your kids to get it and get it over with. I suppose now with the vaccine it is completely unnecessary, but I’d rather the kids be exposed to it when they are kids, vs later in life with it is more likely to be much more severe. And while yes it is today not needed as we have better options, I still am going to lean to “their perogative” on this one.

I don’t feel this way for other diseases such as mumps, measles, rubella, polio, etc.

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#55

When my daughter was about 3 years old, one of her school friends died from chicken pox. This is in the UK, to be clear.

Obviously he was an unfortunate outlier victim of statistics, but it was very sad and made my wife totally paranoid, so we got the vaccine privately.

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#56

Thank you. I think when the respected medical system of a developed country is disagreeing with the issue, then there is a little more nuance than “this is child abuse.”

Seriously, this whole retconning of our childhoods to make our parents child abusers pisses me off.

I get that we’re having a tribal war right now with antivaxxers, but this doesn’t mean we need to exaggerate our side. The chickenpox vaccine seems like it’s most likely the sensible option, but we don’t need to label the entire country of Britain child abusers because they’ve come to a different conclusion from the evidence so far.

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#57

WebMD’s article on it: https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/shingles-chickenpox#1

I understand that while your body has beaten back the varicella zoster virus. Some of those viral particles manage to hide where your immune system can’t get them. And they manage to replicate enough to cause shingles.

#58

Antivaxxers are not nice people.

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#59

Depends what you mean - if there is no initial chicken pox infection due to the vaccination then there will not be shingles.

I assume you meant does it prevent shingles if you have already had chicken pox - then the answer last time I looked into it is No it does not. The vaccine for shingles is different despite the target being the same virus. This was a while back that I looked into it and there may well have been further study.

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#60

Fucking hell. Sometimes I really doubt the value of the internet.

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#61

i don’t feel it’s hyperbole to call it child abuse at all. there is a simple, effective way to prevent your child from getting this, and you instead deliberately expose your kid to it? that sure sounds like some level of abuse to me.

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#62

maybe Im stupid, but some of the statements in the nhs-link doesnt seem to make much sense, like

We could also see a significant increase in cases of shingles in adults.

Being exposed to chickenpox as an adult – for example, through contact with infected children – boosts your immunity to shingles.

If you vaccinate children against chickenpox, you lose this natural boosting, so immunity in adults will drop and more shingles cases will occur.

I am sorry, what?!?

to add to my confusion, right under this it reads:

The vaccine may be given on the NHS to:

  • healthcare workers who are not immune to chickenpox
  • people in close contact with someone who has a weakened immune system

In this way, the chickenpox vaccine protects people at risk who are unable to themselves be vaccinated against chickenpox, such as:

  • pregnant women
  • people who have weakened immune systems – for example, from HIV and AIDS or through treatments such as chemotherapy

so, what is it, then?!?

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