Flowers are lovely, it’s what we do about them that’s too often dangerous.
And then we blame the flowers?
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Pretension in response to… religion?
Heavens to Betsy, what were they supposed to respond with? Religion is pretension in these matters. (edit- and in all matters religious IMHO)
Know what else is predictable? Every pretension, and every reaction to it.
Their point stands, the sort of discussion you too expect doesn’t contain a call for censorship on the basis of the use of secular public resources, or any other for that matter.
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I read the quoted text here on BoingBoing. I read a complaint about this art piece from Loyola, not a demand for censorship. Can you copy the text from the original article that shows him demanding its removal or disfigurement?
How about “Not on my watch”?
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Does giving a dying child resuscitation when you have the existing skill set really make you “not an asshole?” I think it just would make him an even bigger asshole, had he NOT done that. And frankly, I tend to think of asshole as a fairly binary quality, and less of a spectrum disorder.
“I am really not poking fun at religion. I am just looking at it in different ways,” Ryden said. “Someone ought to poke fun at those Christians, though.”
Damn straight!
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When he is a person of some authority in the museum, declaring that this is not going to be allowed on his watch, I read that as a statement of his intention of intervening in the exhibition.
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I don’t have a Christian bone in my body, but if I was an artist living in the US, where these arseholes constantly carry on as if the whole country belongs to them, this sort of thing would definitely be in my scope.
Fuck those guys.
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I want you to outline what counts as legitimate discussion about and criticism of catholicism before you start calling its detractors illegitimate.
And be prepared to be laughed at. You’re just as much clinging to a safety blanket as any of the faithful as long as you still can’t admit the church deserves no respect.
Here’s a legit criticism. Any tithing Catholic is willingly enriching an international criminal organization that is actively protecting child rapists from standing trial. And if you’re even moderately educated you know this is factually true.
How can anyone reconcile this and still believe that they are doing a good thing when they pay their tithe?
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Maybe it’s so predictable because the catholic church still has absurd, obviously false dogma in its core-beliefs and is still doing horrific unforgivable shit to children and adults in both the developed and developing world.
Maybe the catholic church is the illegitimate institution.
Maybe all this talk makes you feel uncomfortable. Maybe it feels like a transgression to point out the truth.
Maybe I think hiding the truth, and protecting evil is a far worse transgression. Maybe I feel speaking the truth is moral and lying is evil.
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Since the artist has included elements of Christian iconography in his paintings, they’re “poking fun at religion”.
If Ryden hadn’t included some nod to Christian iconography, it would be a deliberate rejection of our cultural background and an attempt to preach atheism through art.
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Great, I didn’t see that statement from Loyola in the quoted text here at BoingBoing. Now can you direct the readers to Loyola’s actual statement? It may indeed have been every bit as officious, pretentious and stagy as the response I’ve gotten here – rapid-fire and emotive – from the doyens of All Things Left and Superior ™.
The flouncing, spitting and hissing that emerged from the commentariat here this evening has been contemptible and depressing. Either you (plural) are more rational, fact-based and clear-headed than an overly devout, doctrinaire Catholic… or you aren’t. Carrying on in a pettish manner that is indistinguishable from that of a doctrinaire, overly devout Catholic does not make you better or wiser than him. It just makes you (plural) pitiable in a slightly different way.
If he indicated that he’s about to engage in censorship, fucking document it. Do not prance, and strut and proclaim that he must be because, BECAUSE!!, he’s just so tacky he simply must be doing something vile! (But uber alles, something tacky.)
I read the quoted text here on BoingBoing. I read a complaint about this
art piece from Loyola, not a demand for censorship. Can you copy the
text from the original article that shows him demanding its removal or
disfigurement?
Someone who has enough time to comment, has enough time to document this guy’s actual call for censorship. So fucking do it.
This is the primary source. Satisfied that we’re not lying?
With all your talk about tacky denouncements, I’m still waiting for you to discredit or disprove mine.
You aren’t interested in “legitimate” anything. You just came here to whine about how religion isn’t quite so powerful and respected as it used to be, and couching it in terms of ego.
I’ve said only facts so far. I’ll be extremely generous and say that you had a weaksauce point, and that you’re at least as petty and have as much of an ax to grind as I do. You just don’t like being contradicted with facts and evidence.
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Here’s my beef with you. By calling criticism of the church illegitimate, you have implied that what I’ve said here either makes me a liar or factually incorrect.
Now, I’m a generous guy, so I don’t think you’re calling me a liar. So, you need to point out how I’m incorrect, otherwise you leave me no choice of interpretation.
“This is the primary source. Satisfied that we’re not lying?”
I never accused you of lying sunshine; I accused you of socially acceptable indolence, and piling on viciously – in a place where you expected no push back. And of poor quality argumentation due to the intellectual laziness that comes with excessive comfort.
You keep using phrases like intellectual laziness to describe my points. Yet, intellectual laziness means dishonesty.
If you mean I’m picking the low hanging fruit, then by all means. If only the Catholic Church stopped softballing them for me.
You made the assumption that non religious people somehow aren’t affected or aware of religion. And I think that’s blowing smoke.
I think that you’re the one who’s speaking from a place of comfort. Indeed, people are always talking about how christians are so persecuted. In a country that’s over 70% christian. You don’t get to be the majority and oppressed simultaneously. That’s not kosher, and I don’t buy it.
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