National level polls like we’re talking about tend to be non-predictive, in accurate, and frankly bad at this point in the game. And this is one of the major reasons. Some of the more granular stuff is pretty interesting though. So weird stuff happens to Bernie if you play around with how you poll him vs Trump. Apparently polling his actual policy proposals individually most Americans dislike them. The difference is more extreme the more explanation is provided (including notes on when they would lead to tax increases), and more extreme when you remove specific mentions of Sanders. Like wise if you poll an unnamed candidate with Sander’s exact platform that mystery candidate doesn’t do nearly as well against Trump (though IIRC he still wins). Though the same tricks have basically the same effect on almost all candidates, including Trump. And Trumps numbers turn into an absolute disaster if you remove his name from things. Still interesting though.
@Cowicide
Perhaps shitty reporting on the part of the multiple places I’d read that claim. That first one certainly is a negative add, and is definitely structured the way attack ads typically are. And it is tagged by the official campaign. So that specific claim seems to be wrong. But again look at those ads. Those are not ads attacking him for past actions, personal issues, or other things typical of negative campaigning. Those are predicated on statements and actions from this very campaign as well as the issues and platform he’s pushing. So my larger point still stands. There has been relatively little of that sort of attack on Sanders thus far. Certainly nothing like he would face in a general election. Noone does negative campaigns and attacks quite like the Clintons. And her campaign has acknowledged they have a hell of a lot of opposition research on the guy and have publicly claimed they aren’t actively using it. They’ve openly stated they’re trying to avoid going to hard or negative on the guy. The stated reason being that its unnecessary, and they think it would likely backfire. Bernie’s negative campaigning has potentially backfired in a couple of states, including New York where I live.
Which brings me to another point. I’ve noticed a lot of websites that were previously unknown to me popping up a lot from the Sanders crowd (including Truth Out). Many of them seem pretty sketchy, and I’ve spotted a lot of misrepresented or easily falsifiable information on a lot of them. All of them are HARD in it for Bernie. And I’ve noticed a lot of my peers who are Bernie supporters only seem to be getting their information about the primaries from these sources. But the endless narrow focus on Bernie, endlessly repeated false information, etc. is giving a really inaccurate portrayal of what’s going on. If all the sources you’re looking at just endlessly repeat story lines about how relentlessly attacked Bernie is, you’ll get the impression that its true or more common than it really is. You’re unwillingness to link to her “shitty” ads is part an parcel of this. If don’t look at the original ad you can’t check the announcement at the end for who or what released it. Can’t necessarily see when it was released. And can’t vet whether its really all that negative, or even if they really do fit the sort of attacks we’re discussing (as I said they don’t really fit what I was referring to).
So lets talk about what’s happening out in the real world, personal experience wise. Because as I said its just as important how often this stuff is happening, as it is that it exists at all. In NY during the primary I did not see, hear, or otherwise experience a single negative or attack add targeted at Bernie Sanders. Not from any of the campaigns, including Hillary. Not on TV, not on the radio, not in our local media or newspapers. I’m sure they exist, I’m sure they ran at some level, but infrequent enough that I managed to miss them. Saw plenty of Hillary adds. Got a bunch of polling and campaign calls from her campaign. I did however see and hear tons of negative or attack ads targeted at Trump, Hillary, Crews, and Kasich. And near constant negative and attack ads from Bernie, from both his campaign and surrogates. directed and targeted at Hillary. And our phone was basically ringing off the hook with Bernie campaign calls shit talking Hillary. And that’s to be expected. It happens every election. The lack of action in that regard in terms of Bernie is the only stand out oddity. And its what we’re talking about. He has, generally speaking not been attacked and examined in the same way he would be in a general election. In the same way any candidate would be in a general election. In the same way that other candidates in the primaries generally have. And in the same way his own campaign is doing to the other candidates.
As for my other so called falsehoods. Most of them are easy to check, I even provided clear sources for some of them. Including an actual list of the actual votes actually cast for an actual law as provided by the actual government. Your mileage on these sorts of things may vary. Bernie’s particular problems may not worry you, they may not bother you. But they aren’t false or non-existent just because you dislike them. You might do better to look into the candidate you support more thoroughly. Personally I would not be much bothered by any of the shit I’ve found out about Sanders by doing so. If he wasn’t pointing at everyone else and calling them scumbags for doing exactly the sort of things he himself has done. It seems to be a perpetual thing with Sanders. He railed against super delegates until he needed them. They were bad and undemocratic because they would give the nomination to Clinton even if He beat her in raw votes and delegates, subverting the will of the people. Now he’s asking those super delegates to give him the nomination even though she’s beating him in raw votes and delegates, subverting the will of the people. He repeatedly attacked Clinton for busking for a law he himself voted for. I find that sort of shit unsavory enough that combined with my other issues with the guy its pretty well spoiled whatever liking I had for him at all. Doesn’t mean you’ve got to agree. You can support your chosen candidate warts and all. But don’t pretend the warts don’t exist, and don’t willfully avoid looking at them.
