If what you’re saying is true, and there’s a statistically significant difference in sex drive between the genders, then there would only be few to no asexual men.
Also, what evidence do you have that testosterone, and only testosterone, is responsible for libido? Testosterone does not work that way. Estrogen is about as responsible as testosterone is, and there are plenty of other hormonal factors and easily more non hormonal factors.
Dude, no. We live in a patriarchy. The vast majority of what’s at p-hub and such is made for men.
Because porn is hardly egalitarian.
Why don’t men read romance novels?
Porn IMO is a sticky area to get demographics from. Firstly, it might seem counterintuitive, but most porn is not actually a product of the porn industry. Just as hardly anybody who makes music, movies, or novels are part of those respective industries. And even then, institutional trends in the porn industry proper have often catered towards a perceived lowest-common denominator of male arousal for decades. And even with contemporary sites which encourage amateur and semi-pro work, it can be challenging to sift for, for example, lesbian porn made by and for lesbians. Their model as a marketplace for quick and easy access tends to avoid normalization and integration of sexual behaviors and identities and instead package them as niche products, resulting in them being exaggerated for appeal.
Pornhub is but one site of many. There is no evidence that their man/woman split is even accurate. Where is everybody else? Personally I would probably need to flip a coin to choose which I was, knowing that neither would be accurate. My guess is that more sex-positive and body-positive depictions of people and their sexuality will get more women on board and willing to admit watching the stuff, compared to if they need to sift through sleeze in hopes of finding anything good.
It should not be at all controversial that demographics derived from porn can typically not be assumed to accurately represent average people’s normal sex lives!
Seen Make Love Not Porn before? It’s a direct reaction to the likes of what’s offered on Pornhub, and has become a phenomenon:
https://www.makelovenotporn.com/
If you can’t be bothered to watch Gallop’s TED Talk (though it’s a classic), the TLDR is there are huge segments of the sex-positive population not being served by porn, which, just a reminder, is not actually sex. Instead they rely on other sources, like the romance novels @LearnedCoward mentioned, or, you know, their own imaginations.
MLNP exists because the porn industry was leaving money on the table – a LOT of money on the table.
There are so many reasons why a woman wonildn’t choose to access porn, especially on a device that can be linked to them. When brain scans are done in research situations , woman react to porn just as men do. That seems a much clearer way to test the hypothesis.
Yep. That comes back to the earlier comments on societies effects on sexuality in general. It’s also why it’s very hard to trust studies - the inherent “shame” or “inappropriate” factor, even in anonymized tests.
I don’t see anyone saying that, but at the same time every high testosterone individual is almost certainly not the same sexually, either - IMHO both biology and society play mediating/mitigating roles.
In a word?
#Nope.
Because historically, women in our society have been socialized to be sexually repressed; even when “no one else is looking.”
9 times out of 10, most women won’t even admit to watching porn, whether they actually do or not; because of the inherent stigma that comes with being sexual and having ‘the audacity’ to enjoy things of a sexual nature.
Per the historical patriarchy, sex is supposed to be a “burden” for us, an obligation each woman ‘owes’ to the man who “owns” her; we’re not actually supposed to enjoy it.
I think she took you apology as an attack, because she thought that you had felt she attacked you… That your apology was snark-laden.
In other words, I think it was a misunderstanding in tone.
Okay… I think I NEED to apologize now, because I misread what the original post was discussing! I thought it was a reply to a different post, when it was a link to the other thread.
My apologies, in that case…
I think you’re assuming that all men feel as you might. You’re also assuming that there aren’t women who also have a strong libido, and that our biology and how we act upon that are shaped by our culture. [quote=“codinghorror, post:125, topic:101530”]
I would love to be objectified like that
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Being treated like an object, adored if you’re hot and shat upon if you’re not, isn’t fun. It isn’t some disnefied, rom-com game where Rick Grimes shows up outside your house with cards to tell you he loves you. And the people who treat others in such ways are making a choice. They can make different choices. They can decide that the people they feel physical attraction for are human beings, worthy of their respect, for simply existing. [quote=“codinghorror, post:125, topic:101530”]
If you didn’t start with access to that basic level of being taken seriously and treated fairly, and objectification was substituted, yeah, that’s … not awesome.
[/quote]
Objectification is literally imaging that someone doesn’t have agency outside of one’s existence. That’s not love or mutual desire. It’s death for many, many, many people.
I also think that giving in to whatever they feel their libido is telling them is a choice. We are not the sum of our biology. We are complex creatures who have the privilege of self-awareness and choice.
I love Robert Downey Jr.!
What’s not to love?
Could you please reference the research you are basing your statistics on?
So much of communication is non-verbal, I try to use enough graphics, punctuation, and emoji, but … sometimes it just isn’t enough. Especially when the discussion is inclined to be touchy. (like, for instance, this thread, in which the OP is asking us if we’d sacrifice part of our humanity in order to be objectified less !!! ugh) we’re cool, no snark intended.
I don’t see why you are so upset. I think it is a valid question: would you prefer men without libido? You could and it would be your perfect right to prefer that libidoless situation.
I also find the argument that objectification of women by men would have absolutely no link to sexual attraction disingenuous. Sure: “objectification” can happen without sexual attraction, for example late stage capitalists “objectify” workers. But in this discussion we are explicitly talking about objectification of women by men. Ignoring the sexual content is ignoring the proverbial elephant in the corridor.
I am not putting the onus on women, I am simply asking what they would prefer, what is more important to them. I never said that a situation where all men would be without libido can be attained or is even desirable.
It is a very simple question: what would you prefer?
I’ll give an an example in an other subject. Apparently a proportion of men tend to want to exploit others, as in late-stage capitalism. That is a deplorable trait of mankind which cannot, apparently, be changed. It is also linked to some positive features, these people tend to take risks and are responsible of some progress as well. Capitalism does not work that badly. Still: I would personally prefer that trait to disappear, even at the cost of a more static and poorer society. Even if my opinion will not change the situation, I can express a preference.
Yes, I can relate to that, thank you.
I actually experience being “objectified” as the tech guy regularly. I have some abilities with computers and some people come to me so that I work for them… for free. Apparently, there is an endless supply of people (men and women) who think the universe is at their exclusive service. And it is not only me: the same people exploit their employees and whatever relatives and friends they have. It is a sociopathic pattern.
But I do not have to surround myself with sociopaths. I actively avoid these people and, should they come to me with their demands, I usually actively cut contacts.
Note that this has a cost. I lost some work opportunities that way and find myself with less friends and acquaintances than others. I am prepared to bear that cost, I prefer it that way.
Edit: I feel My post needs a clarification. I am not trying to put the onus of avoiding objectification on women. I can avoid people who want to use my capacities with computers, I am sure everyone is in the same position and I am also not sure that every woman can avoid men who want to “objectify” them. And even if they could, it is not a real solution.
But what I find enlightening in this parallel is that although abusers are numerous, they are a minority. Not all people are like that.
