Are you really this naive? There isn’t always security, or a bouncer, and the cops rarely take this shit seriously to begin with.
If I don’t want to talk to someone and I don’t feel comfortable saying no, then I have every right to give them a fake number. It is not up to me to police how men act in public. It really, really isn’t.
Ah, yes, one of you: It never happens, or some mild interaction is “no big deal” and therefore you know all the answers.
No big deal. You said that twice. Because if you say it twice, it must make it so!
I suppose the time I said “NO, stop bothering me” and I was thrown up against the wall by my neck, and choked, it was “no big deal”, right?
“Generally, a little human kindness and honesty really has it covered.”
Stop acting as if YOUR experiences are exactly the same as everyone else’s experiences. What a bunch of narcissistic bullshit. “I, I’ve, me, me me me me!! This happened to me, so therefore you should act like this!”
Do you really think like this about human interactions?!?! Do you really think your experiences are relevant to everyone else’s experiences? Are you REALLY this unable to step outside of your own little bubble and have empathy for other women who may not share your “not a big deal” experiences?!
So, when some dude’s working himself up to assault you, you just ask him to take a time-out while you call 911, and could he please wait quietly for 15-30 minutes until the police arrive.
Sure, that seems reasonable.
Maybe you’re a little stuck in your own “me” bubble,too? Maybe your frightening experience helped make your perspective more of one that’s more fearful or hateful instead of one that’s more based on treating people with kindness and manners regardless of what gender they are? You’re offering up your personal experience with being a reasonable kind person and being met with violence and I’m offering up mine of being a reasonable kind person and being met with no problem at all most of the time and not a notable problem the couple of exceptions. I’m not saying that my experiences are exactly the same as everyone else’s, just offering up that your experiences aren’t exactly the same as everyone else’s either.
If it’s gotten to that point, to the physical violence point, you’re way past the fake number point already. You’re to the self-defense point.
But really, it doesn’t usually get to that point. And the fake number isn’t about the ones where they want to assault you. It’s not for the random violent stranger predator. It’s about the guy you don’t happen to think is cute or isn’t your type or the guy who asks for your number when you’re not single or not looking. And for that guy, it’s unnecessarily rude.
Imagine if it was you that wanted the number of someone who’s not interested. Put yourself in the guy’s shoes. You see an attractive lady and want to pursue the chance of a date with her. She’s not into you. Wouldn’t you rather her just decline politely than give you a BS number? Wouldn’t it hurt your feelings less to be turned down politely and directly than be excited that you think you might have a chance with her and get home and dial the number and it goes to a feminist line instead? That’s just cruel. And most dudes aren’t asking for cruelty. Sure, there are a-holes out there. A handful of them even that are truly scary and truly awful people. But most of them are just regular people trying to have a good time and make a connection like the rest of us. Automatically assuming they’re the bad guy and treating them that way, well, it doesn’t make you the good guy.
You do not seem to grasp the concept that giving out a false number is the fallback position when nothing else has worked.
Think about it: you’re out somewhere and you see someone you find attractive. You walk up to her and try to get her interested in you too. For whatever reason, no matter what you say or do, she’s not interested. At the point where you are saying “well OK, I’ll leave you alone now, but give me your phone number because I want to keep trying to convince you after we’re no longer face-to-face”, you’re no longer being polite. At that point, you are (at best) a clueless nuisance.
Even the Hail Mary option of leaving your own phone number on a napkin “in case you change your mind later” would be the better course of action.
I’ve had wonderful experiences with men as well, but this isn’t about those experiences. But as a woman who actually likes going out into the world, sometimes I’m faced with uncomfortable situations. Usually I can tell when a guy is going to be polite, or if he’s going to be a creep, but I have pretty good instincts.
I had given my real number out before, on a whim, based on my instincts – the only time that didn’t work out was when about 3 days later his wife called me, screaming, but for the most part, I’m pretty good at knowing when a guy is a creepy or not (not always, but usually). I stopped that once I was physically assaulted, though. It’s just not worth the guess.
You seem to think that every interaction with men in public is wanted, desired, and safe.
I don’t really care if it seems cruel. It’s not up to me to police the feelings of men, either.
But hey, you seem to be ignoring the fact that one time I did say no, politely, HE GRABBED ME BY THE THROAT AND THREW ME AGAINST THE WALL. Why do you ignore that? Heaven forbid i’m now a little wary of being polite to complete strangers whom I owe absolutely nothing.
Seriously. I don’t owe ANYTHING to strangers, even politeness, not when they are invading my personal space and making assumptions about me (I didn’t come up to them! They came up to me!). My safety and sense of comfort are far more important.
And you know what? Can strange men PLEASE stop walking up to strange women and asking for their number with no other conversation or indication that she’s interested? Just because I happen to exist, does not mean that I consent to random men asking for my number, and it certainly doesn’t mean I OWE them anything.
That’s what you’re saying: I OWE them the benefit of the doubt.
Well, yeah, one time I did that and it got me ASSAULTED.
So yeah, I’ve stopped giving my number out, and politely saying no, ever since I was physically assaulted for saying no. I’m over 30, now, I just don’t GIVE A FUCK if I’m cruel to these guys or if I come off as cold. I don’t owe them anything. I certainly don’t owe them an education on how to interact with women. That’s NOT my job all because I happen to exist!
I’m seriously tired of women being told to be “nicer” and “more polite” even after we’ve been literally assaulted.
I’m tired of being “nice” and I’m tired of being “polite” and I"m tired of being expected to literally teach men how to interact with me in a respectful manner.
It’s. Not. My. Fucking. Job. And I don’t owe them shit.
Not really, it’s her pen named, which she took in honor of her grandmother, and so she adopted lower case to differentiate herself from her grandmother, too… and danah boyd does it too, fyi:
Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn’t. This is for when it doesn’t. Which is often more often than we’d like.
But thanks for mansplaining politiness to us lowly wommins. We’re so glad that a guy like you can set us straight. Maybe not the Elliot Rodgers of the world won’t shoot us for being bitches. Keep up the good work.
gramma’r is a tool of the system (the system being in-groups and out groups vis-a-vis big word like).
Or sometimes it’s to honor people and direct people towards the work not the author:
well it looks like it diffentiates her (in group) from the limited out group (her mother).
Directly from the wikipedia:
"She put the name in lowercase letters “to distinguish [herself from] her grandmother”. She said that her unconventional lowercasing of her name signifies what is most important is her works: the “substance of books, not who I am”’
Well, the response was to the sarcasm of:
I merely wanted to note that grammar is used to differentiate things, from other things, and grammar can be considered a part of the system which we use to divide people.
Fair enough. I responded to that snark too, with pretty much the same thing.
I’m a woman,too. You’d have likely been able to guess that if you’d bothered to read all the comments before posting.
Mod note: stop going round and round. Everyone has expressed their opinion, and I don’t see anybody changing their mind, nor having this go anywhere but downhill. If you have any comments call me at 555-867-5309
Read a timely blog post today. Worth reading in general (it’s an Ob/Gyn’s response to George Will’s claim that it’s fashionable to be a rape victim these days), but in the midst she mentions something that is appropriate to this discussion. Keep in mind this is a 47-year-old woman, not a college student:
This weekend I was out dancing and experienced what I think you referred to as “micro-aggressions.” I had my buttocks pinched three times and my breasts groped twice. I was called a “bitch” and a “50-year-hag” when I politely declined hopeful suitors. Whether it is a cat call or a grope these actions represent sexual aggression and Mr. Will they have little to do with sex and everything to do with aggression. I wish someone taught those 40-something-year-old men in college that verbal assaults are not the appropriate response to “no thank you” and that pinching a women’s behind is not a mating ritual.
