There in lies the problem with labeling the other side this or that disingenuously. When the label actually does fit, it is toned out because they were “crying wolf” for so long.
A similar example is labeling the left Communists.
The choice is between no change at all, and disastrous change (though I’d argue a Trump presidency is not quite the descent into madness people claim). Given these options, I completely see why Bernie or anyone else would support HRC in real terms. But work has to begin on bringing third parties into the mix and work has to continue on campaign finance reform.
Simply casting a protest vote won’t change anything more than voting for the lesser of two evils will. Bernie supporters need to accept their new role as political contrarians and carry their ideals forward. HRC loyalists need to accept that their candidate is not only not a saint, but someone who will need to be moved and prodded. They will have to learn to brook what should be a healthy disrespect for people who come to power in our terrible system until it is improved.
If you live in a state where your vote makes no difference, vote your conscience. If my disastrously bland and awful stupid governor makes the cut as Trump’s VP, my state will turn so red it will make the rest of the Midwest look like it’s wearing a clown nose.
If you live in a state where your vote matters, voting anyone but HRC strikes me as the wrong move. Consider that Hillary losing an election will be pinned on you unjustly (instead of a major portion of the country who voted Republican or not at all) and consider in purely pragmatic terms what this does for the prospect of third parties going forward. We don’t really have public campaign financing, so it’s not like third parties will lose out on exta funds. In all honesty, if it looks like HRC has any chance of losing the election and you can’t stomach voting for her, you do more for third party prospects going forward by staying home. Otherwise we’ll have to endure more misinformation about spoilers, even if the reality is that HRC is likely to lose because middle of the road voters don’t like her and not because of any spoiler effect.
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Bernie has said from day one that his goal was to be elected, but that if he wasn’t chosen as the nominee, he would support whoever was chosen and would ask his followers to support them as well. It’s a shame that he (or, more accurately, his campaign) moved away from their staunch “just the issues” mandate and got into nasty mudslinging late in the game; it makes his promised support of the nominee hard for his followers to accept as genuine.
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I’ll just note here that Trump is the first non-historical electoral candidate that I have ever described as a fascist. And I was born in the early 1970’s.
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I really strongly recommend that people (regardless of whether you agree with Bernie in particular) look into Brand New Congress and FairVote.
For Bernie supporters, there is:
Democratic Socialists of America
We are a political and activist organization, not a party; through campus and community-based chapters DSA members use a variety of tactics, from legislative to direct action, to fight for reforms that empower working people.
As far as I know, Bernie hasn’t really advocated for pulling together all the potential independent/socialist allies into a strong coalition (even though many of those allies supported him). He committed to running as a Democrat, and never got in touch with the Green Party, hasn’t spoken up for Brand New Congress or the DSA or Socialist Alternative or the like. He’s helped to promote a few other politicians, which is great. His latest (post-)campaign email said he’d be giving a “what’s next” message on this subject, so I’m curious whether there will be an attempt to rally people to such organizations or to start a new one, or what.
Kshama Sawant may be worth watching: former Occupy organizer, current Seattle city council member, founder of #Movement4Bernie (currently doing a video/discussion event series with Jill Stein and Socialist Alternative) If she can get into state politics and beyond she might really shake things up.
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Meanwhile, elsewhere on the webz, some conservative forum is having a flame war about how it was Perot’s fault that W. Clinton was president for 8 years, rather than the failure having been Bush the Greater’s own damned crap campaign.
/sigh
This entire election cycle is an utter shitshow. 
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Fingers crossed!
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Meanwhile, elsewhere on the webz, some conservative forum is having a flame war about how it was Perot’s fault that W. Clinton was president for 8 years, rather than the failure having been Bush the Greater’s own damned crap campaign.
Ah, so that shit happens on the right too? Thanks for going where I’m loath to tread and finding that out.
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Nah, I’d need more eye bleach than I have on hand. It simply strikes me as implausible that it isn’t happening elsewhere because it’s not like there’s a ton of love for the GOP candidate within the party.
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Emmett Rensin’s take on this - Why Some Bernie Sanders’s Voters Refuse to Support His Hillary Clinton Endorsement
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That about sums it up. Basically no matter what you do, people will antagonize you for ever not supporting HRC. I’m starting wonder if these people have any sense of why we have primaries.
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I’m regretting having shown support for Bernie now because of this. I compromise on my beliefs in an attempt to move the Overton window to the left, and then I get people telling me I should compromise more and support a candidate who will then compromise further with a political party who have no interest in compromise themselves. I’m actually kind of glad that I don’t get a vote now.
In the future I’m going to stick to only supporting candidates who are affiliated with the World Socialist Movement. I think I have overcome the inertia around filling in that SPGB application form now.
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I think there’s a difference between compromising and pragmatism in some cases.
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And you’re cheerfully allowing a Supreme Court appointment from a bullying hard right manchild.
You’re already compromising your beliefs by taking your vote and going home.
We don’t live under the system of government where voting third party benefits a leftist ideology. Be a rugged individualist, the rest of the collective has to protect itself still.
Take action in other ways, this does nothing for the movement.
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@anon73430903 is British.
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I’ll let you know how that application goes.
You are continuing to push me and others away. There will always be a Republican that needs voting against, which is why we are still having Third Way bullshit being offered to us as the only alternative, any other view is silenced.
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Vote however you wish but don’t use anyone else as an excuse for doing what you already want to do, a meaningless gesture that has no possibility of doing good beyond self-satisfaction.
Be politically active if you want to achieve your goals as a Socialist, anything else is Internet petition-level slacktivism.
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voting for a nonviable candidate doesn’t change the system, nor does it oust the Third Way DLC approved establishment.
I find that attitude distasteful because it’s literally the least you can do. It requires no organizing and has no effect on politics, but it makes persons feel comfortable instead of keeping them angry and pushing them towards more productive action.
I probably support many of the same beliefs and ideals as you, but me voting Lizard People or Mickey Mouse isn’t going to cause any revolution.
[quote=“Phrenological, post:177, topic:81337”]
And you’re cheerfully allowing a Supreme Court appointment from a bullying hard right manchild.[/quote]
That’s always the argument to ‘vote against’ somebody. Not for…against. It becomes weaker the more dramatic things get…there’s always an FDR solution to that particular problem…and a properly progressive candidate wouldn’t leave that on the table.
And Trump is WAY less scary than Reagan was. We had the threat of Global Annihilation back then. Trump’s a hack by comparison.
Everybody who voted for one of the two existing candidates in the primaries did something worse IMHO.
Besides, you can’t complain when people say ‘this game of Monopoly where everybody starts out with all the properties sucks’, and they have every right to say by contributing to that system you’re helping trap future generations.
I agree on ‘taking action in other ways’. Anything that overcomes this travesty of a system that results in uncountable death and suffering in my name is creating a window for something that gasp doesn’t suck (Wouldn’t that be cool? Not sucking?)
No need to lecture though (it’s super self-defeating IMHO), the only people who have votes that will count in this one are in a small percentage of States…assuming that we don’t already have a solid winner come election time. If somebody in Texas votes third party then they’ve sacrificed nothing except their time.
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I can not control them, only where and when I caucus.
It’s certainly a waste of time, people rant and make these impotent gestures regardless of rationality. It’s all about releasing that anger, even if it gets us more Scalias and Thomases.
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