Oh for fuck’s sake, you really don’t understand this subject at ALL.
Of COURSE it matters if you think 30 women are lying.
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Likelihood didn’t enter this discussion either. Don’t put words in my mouth.
I am illustrating the possibility, which is no stronger than the possibility that Cosby is indeed guilty for all the weight your precious public opinion should warrant. But like I said originally: whether or not I think it’s likely or the god-honest truth doesn’t matter. It has no more effect than a thousand idiots on a BoingBoing messageboard latching onto something they don’t like hearing as a misogynist attack.
Welcome to the internet, where everyone is an idiot but you and if you disagree using any semblance of logic instead of fervent emotional fanaticism you’re a [sexist, racist, classist, etc]. Even if nobody knows a damn thing about you or your personal position on any of those topics.
Signed: a feminist who believes in equality, not stupidity.
Apparently @Jemak isn’t aware that WITNESS TESTIMONY is, in fact, factual evidence and admissible in a court of law.
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But Y OUR “court of public opinion” which is that 30 women are probably lying is totally acceptable, right?
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I’m still waiting for the semblance of logic in your case.
I assume you have proof of a skewed feminist agenda on chenille’s part, one that would stand up in a court of law, that you’re not sharing with the class?
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Yeah, the five readers of my blog where I post spreadsheets about videogames are really messing with Bill Cosby’s rights.
If my opinion sent people to jail then I wouldn’t give it. If you are ever accused of a crime you’d want me on your jury. Like I said, if your only point is that Bill Cosby is still legally innocent, we all know that already.
You seem to want to make a broader point that we should never imply anyone did anything wrong unless we have infallible evidence, evidence that could not have been falsified. But all evidence could be falsified. False accusations happen, bandwagoning happens, but videos can be altered, DNA evidence could be a frameup, you could be mistaken about things you saw with your own eyes. Even courtrooms don’t go with “fully verified” they go with “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Reasonable is a big word in that sentence.
Or maybe your point is that we shouldn’t be having this conversation at all? That’s an interesting idea. Do you think we’d be a better, more just society if we all just kept our thoughts to ourselves about criminal accusations? I remember the Strauss-Khan case where people in France were outraged by the “perp walk” photos in the papers because they don’t print those in France. If that’s the case that you are trying to make then I think there might be something to that.
What I took issue with is the idea that someone could easily fabricate a conspiracy - it would not be at all easy for reasons @Brainspore outlined above.
Based on the statistical model I linked, to me, thirty accusers is pretty much as good evidence as a high quality video of an assault in a well lit room where the perpetrator looks right at the camera at some point (which also could be fake - did I mention you’d want me on your jury?). If I saw such a video I would be pretty convinced that the person in the video really was guilty, but if it were up to me whether to send them to prison I would say, “Wait a minute there, how about you have an actual trial instead of listening to me.”
If you want to assert that we should draw no conclusions on principle then I don’t think I have a dog in that fight at this moment, it sounds wrong to me but I’d be open to hearing arguments on both sides. But if you want to assert that the fact that thirty accusations were made is not, in itself, powerful evidence that there was wrongdoing then I think you need to stop imagining possible realities and start looking at actual mathematical models that could account for such a thing.
As for misogyny, a point about the principle of not commenting on accusations is obviously quite independent of what one thinks of women. A point that thirty accusations isn’t evidence when those accusations come from women walks a bit like a duck. Would we still be saying that the accusations themselves were evidence of nothing if the accusers included Bill Gates, John McCain and Jerry Seinfeld? Maybe you would (?), but the vast majority advancing the “we shouldn’t jump to conclusions” agenda wouldn’t. Maybe I too quickly tarred you with that brush.
While you are on your high horse, do me a favour and answer my challenge above to point to the place where I assumed anything about your gender. You seem to think that everyone else should be admitting that they are wrong, how about leading by example?
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Liar, liar, pants on fire. 
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You are not a feminist.
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Way to not answer the question you were asked, bub.
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Why? Because I have this crazy idea that both women and men should be treated equally in all ways including those of behavioral scrutiny? You’re the expert, I guess.
What, are you going to whine about the feminist agenda again?
You
Are
Not
A
Feminist.
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@marilove
Indeed, you’ve seen through my clever ruse. What was I thinking entering a public discussion with absolutely no knowledge of anything contained within. Oh, wait.
Reminder: I wasn’t the one who brought up the topic of misogyny in the first place. It was another individual who did because he/she did not agree with my opinion. That is what constitutes behavior unbecoming of a feminist.
I thought you didn’t have an opinion, just facts?
Seriously, people have posed a lot of reasonable questions for you and you have ducked every one. Some of us like to argue (maybe as much as you do?) but you have leveled your own false accusations (still waiting for the quote where I assumed your gender) so your vigorous defense of “innocent until proven guilty” sounds awfully disingenuous.
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I never said anything about misogyny.
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I don’t think that bringing up misogyny is behavior unbecoming of a feminist. It’s kind of the reason for feminism, no?
And besides, it wasn’t brought up because Humbabella disagreed with you, it was because you were suggesting that the evidence of thirty women accusing one man of rape wasn’t worth anything.
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I don’t know, to someone who thinks bribing 30 women into accusing an incredibly powerful public figure of rape would be financially do-able, some creative video editing would be an absolute bargain!
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Just another “he said/she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she said” story.
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Yeah, that was me with my “walks like a duck” point about ignoring the stories of 30 women. Now, it’s not impossible that @Jemak was merely ignoring the stories of 30 people but, like I said above, I don’t think we’d be having the same conversation if the accusers men (particularly well known, rich or powerful men - though obviously the homosexual part would be a real confounding factor).
One of the key skills that a person needs to have a reasonable discussion is the ability to distinguish commentary on words and opinions from commentary about people. I think I probably crossed the line on that one because instead of saying “that sounds like a misogynist thing to say” I said it sounded like it came from misogyny (which is sort of attributing the property of misogyny to @Jemak). But since I got in return a claim that I unfairly gendered @Jemak, I’m pretty sure what I wrote wasn’t being read anyway.
Like I said in my (perhaps too) apologetic post above, if the point is that we shouldn’t being make any judgements or any comments, then maybe there is something to that. But the point that thirty separate accusations isn’t a fact about reality that affects the likelihood of innocence is just out to lunch.
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Now, what… would you find? … Irritating? … About his world-famous… way of talkin’?
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The only help it would be would be you learning the lesson about how not helpful it would be.
And do assume that I am a survivor, and $%#^ off with your weasel word games.
