NASA never went away. It’s always been there doing the work to maintain the ISS and making long term plans to study and go back to space. Musk and the private agencies are seeking to replace NASA so that they can monetize and profit off space exploration.
NASA hasn’t really been flying its own in-house rockets lately, but to the point of the original post United Launch Alliance was flying commercial rockets for years before SpaceX came on the scene. Competition from SpaceX may have lowered costs but it’s silly to say that there would be no space program without them.
But they never went away completely, which was my point - and they stopped putting ships up for very good reasons.
Just because some people weren’t pay attention to them or that they were not putting up their own ships on the regular did not mean they weren’t doing anything. Seems like a real sleight for people to act like all the people still employed by NASA and still making strides in space exploration (which, as I’m sure you’re aware, includes more than just putting people into space) just aren’t doing anything and some how dickhead mcemeraldmine has revolutionized space travel… It’s yet more of the BS great man narrative that just doesn’t hold up to the cold hard facts.
I think that @joed was trying to say that, since NASA doesn’t launch their own ships anymore, they wouldn’t have much of a space program without the support of a private space launch provider. (ergo, no space program without SpaceX) My point is that they already had such a provider before SpaceX came along, so that’s a silly thing to say.
So, pretty much just like the history of NASA during the Cold War, when private industry was building their ships already… 
The major difference was that the needs of NASA was driving the contracts, and with SpaceX, it’s more of an after thought.
So, we agree on that, at least!
Also, NASA could have picked it back up with relatively short notice if the need had arisen. It’s not like the US was dependent on private enterprise for a space program. That’s just silly.
Yes we had NASA and electric cars before Musk came along but like Henry Ford or Apple, he was there at the right time to kick it up a gear and take it mainstream.
He is a shitweasel and needs some serious reining in but both of those industries would be in a very different place if he wasn’t around.
A better place?
But the shitweasel in question isn’t doing the work himself, at all. His employees are the ones responsible, NOT him. I don’t see how Musk is entitled to claim their successes as his when all he does is fund them (after getting his start with his family’s blood money.)
So far, the Shitweasel’s main talent on display seems to be making aggressive, obnoxious, and bigoted comments.
(Edit: fixed spelling error.)
With a load of federal assistance.
All car manufacturers are getting assistance at various levels, that’s not unique to Telsa.
SpaceX got funds through winning contracts, that’s not exactly federal assistance. Old Space is the one creaming off federal funds.
I have no love for Musk, but to suggest that he is getting assistance in a way that his competitors are not is being one eyed. Dog knows there are a huge number of problematic things that he has done - including allowing terrible behaviour to continue in the Telsa factories without having to invent any.
Personally I would love it if he shut up, handed over the running of Telsa to someone else like he has with SpaceX and just concentrated on new things like Starship.
Ok, I’m gonna have to call that out as nonsense. Half of Tesla’s real seed money was a one-of-a-kind, one-off gift from the US government.
You might argue the Big 3 have had similar bailouts/investments, but no other EV-only company has.
If you are going to narrow the field that much, you may be right, I don’t know.
EV only companies today do have the advantage that they are coming into a field that has been opened up so it is easier to get VC and public investment. If Rivian had been first out of the blocks, what fed funding would they have managed to receive?
I’m not narrowing the field. I’m anticipating your objection. I don’t think the massive investment Tesla received is comparable to the bailouts to the big 3, but I can imagine Muskrats would bring that up.
a general sentiment that if you’re rich, you’re evil.
Gee, where could she possibly have gotten that idea? It’s almost as though she’s aware of the world around her or something.
By now I do hope I’ll never meet him in person. Odds are it wouldn’t end well for both of us.
Nah, that was DoA, none of the AD companies have a working product, not one has a product that’s even close to a crap driver, let alone a professional driver. That’s one thing that actually can’t be blamed on Musk, AD is not going anywhere until we have actual AI (not ML that has no way of actually experiencing the endless variety of inputs a road can throw at you, and we’re actually quite good at dealing with).
Well AD failing isn’t his fault, but the never ending hype and promises, that’s on him.
