My dad used to live up there, IIRC. Said it was really pretty. I didn’t know you made the thread, I will have to look for it later.
There’s actually a really, really weird confluence between the two at the political level. The Religious Right includes a sizable highly Orthodox Jewish block. Who directly work with, cooperate with, and interact with the very same groups that buy into the apocalyptic ideas that lead to Jewish as 2nd coming fuel. Its always struck me as really, really strange. The Revelations crowd are often openly and loudly anti-semetic. But your highly conservative (small c, as it politically), highly Orthodox, pro-Israel/Zionist element openly bolsters them. Mostly for the Israel support, but also occasionally over issues like gay marriage. There’s this weird feed loop with conservative politicians, Orthodox Jewish bodies, and Evangelical preachers whipping themselves into a furor over the idea of an Israeli religious state. But all for reasons that are at least a bit contradictory.
And it even feeds a lot of money. There’s apparently a huge tourist business in getting Evangelicals to travel to Israel. To convert Jews. Convince Jews to build the temple (including Christian churches raising money to build it now). See the Christian sites. Prove various things about conspiracy theories. And a whole bunch of other nonsense. With a surprising lot of it run or prompted by the same Religious Right groups that get all weird over hear. Christian Group A books their weird ass trip through/with Orthodox Group A. Business controlled by the same elements make a ton of money.
Its god damned bonkers.
Thanks, Obama.
LOL - WHAT? Regret is eating that 5th taco - not for a vote you should have researched.
It is a very munchy word, I’ll give you that.
No less strange than fringe groups like the KKK and (now Scientology frontgroup) Nation of Islam promoting “right of free association” aka libertarians trying to re-legalize segregation. They hate each other, but not as much as they hate the world.
It’s an interesting info-graphic.
Kind of strange the way the numbers add up (or don’t). For example, 80% of the leave vote thinks that immigration is a force for ill, whereas 21% of them thinking it’s a force for good, leaving them with… a population of 101% ?
No wonder the leaves won. Apparently they get to vote multiple times.
[Edit: BTW, I’m just being a little snarky. The numbers do add up, but the graphics itself is convoluted and confusing]
This is a fantastic result. It has nothing to do with racism nor xenophobia, it has to do with independence. The right for a country to govern itself as it sees fit, and to remove politicians through elections when they don’t (or in the EU often can’t) carry out their mandate. Consider the many countries historically that have waged wars and shed blood for a shot at independence. How are people so ready to give that away?
The EU is hell-bent on a United States of Europe that it can control from central governance. It has extended its mission-creep far beyond its original remit and will continue to do so if unchecked.
Centralised power is never a good thing. It is unaccountable, un-removable and becomes expensive for those who can least afford it. The markets have had a shock, but watch this space, they’ll be back up within a week or two.
Britain will look forward to doing the same trade with our European cousins that we always have, and be free to make trade deals with the rest of the world now too.
Please don’t accuse everyone who voted ‘leave’ of being racist, small-minded or little-England pensioners, it’s not the case at all. It’s about leaving an expensive behemoth that only has its own power in its best interests.
Our brothers and sisters in France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece etc. will see that life outside of this fenced-in area is indeed possible, and besides eachother, there’s a whole big world out there ready to trade with.
Let it pull us together, not apart.
Based on the age breakdown of the voting, we have just been voted out of the EU by people who think Ready Brek is an exciting way to start the day. So there is that.
Yes, I’m cranky. My investments are in the toilet, my kids may leave the country, thanks to a load of ignorant old people who didn’t have a clue about the issues, but thought that if all those immigrants went back where they came from, it would be easier to get to see their (Polish) doctor.
You’re right. They’re not all pensioners. Half of them are almost/wannabe pensioners.
Do you think that will happen before the UK has their “rejoin the EU” referendum?
Oh, believe me, I know. I grew up in the Cleveland, Ohio Orthodox community, and those forces that you mentioned were very much present–alot of Dubya voters, for example, back when I still lived there, because he was “pro-Israel”, despite the evident facts for the reasons behind his support being appeals to the Revelations block.
As for social regressiveness… I’ll put it this way: at the school I attended, they were so prudish that I didn’t even know what homosexuality was. It wasn’t even mentioned. Which worked out fine for me–I had zero preconceptions to overcome, but I really have to wonder what kind of effect that might have had on my statistically three gay classmates.
But, yes, I have to wonder at the degree of compartmentalized thinking of a group of people that can proclaim that assimilation is the biggest threat facing our people and actively work towards shutting themselves off from secular society, while at the same time working hand-in-glove with Evangelical Christians on a political level.
Of course, I made the mistake of asking about that and other points of dogma, and, well, there’s a reason I’m not part of that community anymore. 
Welcome to 21st century democracy.
Personally, I’ve kind of reversed my decision on if the “internet is a force for good or evil.” I used to think good, but now I just see it as a tool, and all tools these days will be used for evil. In the ever-hastening post-literate world culture that we’re living in everything is reduced to a reaction, and no thought requiring more than 140 characters can be expressed.
So, you may think that the old folks screwed the pooch on this one. But don’t worry – the young ones can screw up next time!
Tx; I’m good on the grandfather thing.
One said: “I personally voted leave believing these lies and I regret it more than anything, I feel genuinely robbed of my vote.”
Oh goodness. “Robbed”?
I’d love it if there was some polling on this, though. With nearly 1.3 million voting to leave it’s almost hard to believe that you couldn’t find 5 who regretted it.
Such as the UK in it’s recent Brexit vote? I get issues of scale, but I don’t like people pretending that no one died in this campaign.
The religious Right have more in common than they do with the left wing of their own religions. Forget the ideologies: it’s the right-wingness that matters. When you see someone dressed in black, wearing a funny hat, possibly a funny beard, and telling women that he knows what’s best for them, whether they’re Islamist, Hassidic, Russian Orthodox or Bible Belt makes little practical difference.
And the sound of tills ringing is the same for all of them.
