Brianna Wu explains why #gamergate death-threats won't scare her into backing down

[newliminted]

A very short, quite expandable, list of game titles not to be overlooked, by males, females or anyone else not covered by the first two categories: Myst, Starship Titanic, Nethack, Mario Kart. Now add your own.

[newliminted]

We just wanted to keep it occupied until you got around to eating it.

[popobawa4u]

@greengestalt

I say this with experience. As a kid I read paperbacks published in the 60s, early 70s, earlier from the library and used bookstore.

Then, turning 18, in college and with a job I felt like a tycoon and bought “New” stuff. This was early 90s. Well I felt I’d hit a wall of “What the…?”

So, you’re saying that it seems more likely to you that a cabal of feminists had begun to dictate the entire book publishing industry, rather than you see trends in popularity over 40 years? Sometimes, certain forms of fiction are not well represented in new publishing. When I got into cyberpunk in the mid90s, many of the classic works had been OOP for years. But by the late 90s-early00s much of it was back in print. Both Gor and Elric books had a hiatus for some years before the publication of newer books. Dunsany died in the 1950s and many people now simple don’t know about him or his writing. It can be frustrating when the style you like goes out of fashion, but I’d need more evidence before crying “conspiracy” than saying “my favorite author of barbarian literature has said so”.

@greengestalt

And the paperback industry collapsed. Oh, you can get paperback books, but it’s 1/10th at best the whole thing for what sci-fi / fantasy alone used to be. And its all PC drek, surface only stories just there to fill shelf space and hope they win the lottery and become the next “Game of …” whatever.

I think you’ve almost got it right - but the “PC” that has done books in is computers, as in electronic publishing. They have practically no overhead to manufacture. But they also eliminate the need to have a book company print and distribute your work. It is the biggest technological revolution in books since the printing press, and I guarantee you is more of a factor than decade-to-decade trends in literary content or the reviews of a few critics. So the remaining book landscape is more likely to be one where less chances are taken by large publishers and bookstores. But it’s also easier to buy a small-batch book directly from the author than it was 20 years ago.

@greengestalt

Frankly, the ugly truth is that games are created by and for males. And they are brutal “Sink or Swim” they make what sells or they don’t get a paycheck. On top of that they are already hamstrung by non law but industry ‘ratings’ that hobble them, much as comic books had to deal with.

There are more males involved, but it’s not the whole story. I’d say it had become a stereotype even. As a competitive gamer myself, many of the players in my scene are female. Digging into the demographics of who I was playing with surprised me. Not only were a large percentage female, quite a few were even elderly, like in their 60s and 70s. I was surprised probably because the games are simply not marketed towards those people, but they are out there.

Personally, I don’t care about “the industry”. All of the creative industries are IMO parasites which make their money by publishing and exploiting the works of a sweatshop of create people. Just like how I prefer music or movies made by a few interested people than some fucking corporate committee. My feelings about games are similar. Anyway, I do not see the game industry collapsing from any of this. They have endured lots of controversy before. I agree that rating systems are useless - arguably, determined people do not need to use them - another good reason to go independent.

What people are asking for is some diversity. Not everybody wants to play some dingy jingoistic military shooter game. So a signal is being sent to game developers and publishers that it is ok to branch out a little. Not everybody wants a stupid mechanic for blowing everything up in some macho bullshit game, just like not everybody wants to see it in a Michael Bay movie. Diversity is also what allows you to read sci-fi barbarian fiction of men keeping women as slaves, when this idea is repugnant to many people. I am certainly not into it, but enough of my bookshelf is sufficiently transgressive to get me burned alive in much of the world, so I can appreciate have more outre works available. If you think that suddenly the game market is going to be replaced with forcing the POV of feminist scholars, I’d say this is unlikely and that you might be drastically overreacting. Sure, some radical feminists have struck me as misandrist, but I think that these tend to be the exception. Diversity is a call for more choices, and I think generally a good thing.

[anon61221983]

@greengestalt

IMO its just Misandry masked as ‘feminism’.

[PrestonSturges]

That was some mighty fine snark … I think.

[PhasmaFelis]

@Shuck

Given that #germergoat is primarily angry at Brianna Wu for being female, there’s not really a lot she can do to “back down.”

Now that’s just not fair at all. They’re angry at her for expressing opinions while female.

[PhasmaFelis]

You guys, I have a serious and important question. Should the master list of Dudes Who Just Happened To Register In Time To Defend GamerGate (And Will Never Post Again) include dudes who get banned? I feel like it waters down the impact of And Will Never Post Again if they can’t post again.

Also, GreenGestalt comes off as less of the usual Earnestly Furious Misogynist type and more of a common/garden troll striking a target of opportunity, so there’s that too.

[MBD]

[quote=“greengestalt, post:15, topic:45231”]
Gor - Gor by the “Bucketload”…[/quote]

Is that you, oxymuncha?

[popobawa4u]

@PhasmaFelis

Also, GreenGestalt comes off as less of the usual Earnestly Furious Misogynist type and more of a common/garden trolley striking a target of opportunity, so there’s that too.

I had to wonder! Definitely put my “not sure if serious” specs on a few times. But I don’t mind engaging with self or group identified marginals. I have met so many real kooks that I probably err on the side of earnest. Also, I haven’t been here long myself, so I am still learning who people are.

[tachin1]

Nah, any of these assholes woule let a woman speak her mind if she’d just let them touch her, an ankle’s fine, an elbow, hell, just a smile in their general direction would do it. Of course, every other woman who would not give them the time of day is gonna get an earful.

Stupid man-babies.

[tachin1]

You’re assuming that each and every new account is a different person. Its not, a couple of these people have even admitted to having multiple accounts after one account got banned, (And was promptly banned again!)

Anyway, if they stop posting under one account, its not that they were beaten, they’re just planning a different attack under another alias. GreenGestalt is just one of the many characters/tactics these jokers have.

[PhasmaFelis]

@tachin1

You’re assuming that each and every new account is a different person. Its not, a couple of these people have even admitted to having multiple accounts after one account got banned, (And was promptly banned again!)

Anyway, if they stop posting under one account, its not that they were beaten, they’re just planning a different attack under another alias. GreenGestalt is just one of the many characters/tactics these jokers have.

Oh, I know. That’s why I’m keeping the list pointing out that none of the GamerGate defenders ever seem to come back. It’s, like, three dudes desperately trying to look like an army.

[nickpheas]

So you’re saying it’s not about ethics in game journalism at all, it’s about easy access to soft core bondage porn?
Frankly, if you can’t find any these days then you’re not trying hard enough.

[anon26625345]

Well, I for one am taking it face value.

I mean the progression from “it’s about ethics in journalism (bitch!)” to “well yeh, there are some nasty people doing some nasty stuff, but don’t you think they have a valid point?” to “ah well, fuck these bitches!” has a pleasing enough narrative that I can at least pretend that these threads aren’t a complete waste of time for everyone involved.

It’s like the classic Hero’s Journey story arc, but rather than going from “normal guy” to “hero”, they’re going from “idiot” to “gibbering shitwhistle.”

[nickpheas]

I mean the progression from “it’s about ethics in journalism (bitch!)” to “well yeh, there are some nasty people doing some nasty stuff, but don’t you think they have a valid point?” to “ah well, fuck these bitches!”

Though to be strictly pedantic about it, that should be “fuck this bitch” to “it’s about ethics in journalism (bitch)” and so on.

[Thebarton_Gamer]

@anon26625345

gibbering shitwhistle

This needs to be in the 5ED Monster Manual.

[longname]

@doctorow

It’s a ridiculously simple idea with a huge market no one is addressing.

Oh how I hope it is not another variation of Flappy Bird.

[anon50609448]

I actually found it a really refreshing read. I mean, blaming the decline of the paperback on feminism is one of the purest demonstrations of the fact that intelligence is multi-dimensional I have ever seen. To make that argument you need to be smart in a way, but you have to be fantastically over-the-top stupid in another way.

At any rate, I genuinely have nothing against people who want to make and play outrageous games full of sexist tropes and violence against everyone and everything. That’s what I’d like gamergaters to understand. Please, play through every crazy sexist trope you like and have a blast.

Just don’t have a psychotic break when someone points out that they are indeed sexist tropes and we’ll probably be fine.

[IronEdithKidd]

Well, as a 40-ish mom who’s played video games since she was younger than her own kid is now, I have to say that most games are appealing to me on some level. However, the lack of playable, not-ridiculously-sexualized characters can put me off lots, if not most, AAA titles. Then again, I’m not the biggest fan of FPS, either…

[Shuck]

I think expressing an opinion is just the red flag that gets the attention of #germergoat, I’m not sure it’s the actual thing to which they’re objecting, given that some of their targets didn’t even do that.