My “ideal” is that complex problems are complex, and that a problem that looks the same in two different places might actually be two different problems, so it is best to examine them in context.
There are two policies in play here, one a Home Office policy under Schedule 7 that a complaint filed by flight crew triggers an investigation on the ground, and (apparently) a Thomson Holidays policy in which their crew are supposedly “trained to spot suspicious behaviour.” Whether the flight attendant singled our Ms. Shaheen because s/he (the FA) was racist, or because s/he was stupid, or because s/he genuinely thought Shaheen might be in danger, we do not know at this time, but the third is at least a possibility in the UK in a way that it isn’t in the US.
I’m not dismissing them, I am simply pointing out that they might not be relevant here. I listen to UK news for 2+ hours every day and the problem of UK citizens joining Jihadi groups is a big deal there, especially big there compared to here because Muslims are such a large and integral part of English society.
There is a difference between an action or opinion being not obviously racist, and it being obviously not racist.
Yeah. It’s a boneheaded policy, and it doesn’t matter who’s mouth it comes out of. It’s become official post 9/11 doctrine that somehow the same populace that is constantly being scared about terror by the government and news media, can somehow rationally determine what is suspicious.
Evidently I need to take my “Trauma surgery in childhood and infancy” textbooks when travelling as on-flight reading. If some stickybeak wants to check what I’m reading, hey, look at Fig 8.2!
Given her profession I have a hard time feeling sorry for the woman. It was surely a useful learning experience for her that will come in handy when talking to other Muslims in danger of being radicalized because they get more and more angry each time they are singled out by the police.
I don’t know how you can reconcile Shaheen having what I think you’re tacitly acknowledging as an unhappy experience with not feeling sorrow for her having had this experience. Are you just not a sympathetic person in general?
Your second sentence makes perfect sense, so much so that it makes me wonder if your first sentence was a flat-on-one’s-face failed effort to express your view.
Can you even “travel to Syria” directly from Australia? That’s extremely unlikely. Anyone traveling to IS-controlled Syria, these days, flies to Turkey and then crosses the border by car. This woman was flying to Turkey, which is step 1.
Turkey has always been a popular holiday destination for the British (despite some recent events), I guess it was Doncaster in particular as the airport nexus that surprised me. I’ve spent a lot of time in Doncaster (mainly changing trains, but also some exploring) and it doesn’t seem the “international hub” kind of place.
We are talking about “Robin Hood Airport” - I expect it’s mostly catering to cheap outbound holiday-seeking passengers, but there might be a bit of inbound tourism as well.
We’re still human, and are thus fallible and capable of all of the myriad rainbow of human flaws. To pull a quote from Sir Pratchett, “Just because someone’s a member of an ethnic minority doesn’t mean they’re not a nasty small-minded little jerk.” However, while Jews definitely have our share of bigots and general assholes, much as any other human culture will, seeing the implicit expectation of “Jews must be somehow perfect and free from all internalized bigotry” as being a prerequisite for acknowledging that we are an ethnic minority that itself faces bigotry… well, that itself is an act of bigotry, specifically that of double standards.
Other examples of that double standard are easily witnessed. In the course of this thread alone, in order to dismiss my own lived experiences of having experienced the threat of White Supremacy, you post a picture of a book, and airily dismissed my concerns by telling me to tell White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis to go read a book (one by a Jew, no less) in order to get them to stop threatening me for being Jewish. And I just have to compare that action with your well-established history of passionate defense of any other threatened minority, and… well, it speaks for itself.
Look, I get it: You view Jews as White (witnessed by the book cover you posted and by your stated confusion about how you view it as “odd” how both White and Non-White people can be considered “Jewish” because we “differ in appearance”, as if that should be the determining factor). Therefore, it is easy to conjecture from your post history that you view Jews, being White, as being complicit in White Supremacy. And conjecture is not required to know your views on how you view those as White should believe and act in regards to that state of Whiteness, as those views have been vocally and repeatedly stated on this board. And, at that point, it’s apparently easier to simply dismiss a Jewish voice with a book cover and a “Whataboutism” criticism of Israel.
With that said, I do not feel that you are willing to debate in good faith on this topic. I am sorry that my people are not perfect paragons of morality, but I do not feel that that lack gives you the right to single us out for criticism, deny our experiences, and conflate us with those who would murder us.
She was detained for 15 minutes. We can all agree I think that its bullshite and she clearly wasn’t any kind of a threat. Let’s be honest…if you ARE a radical terrorist you wouldn’t be reading a book about it on a flight. So while the authorities in this case were wrong in their assessment, it was within the scope of the law and it was only 15 min.
If I drive by a cop and he/she pulls me over, detains me for 15 min while they run my licence and registration, and then send me on my way unharmed…is this a crime on their part?
Again, I do not like that it happened to her. I do not think it was necessary. I feel a more well reasoned and rational person would have merely done something simple like ask her “That’s an unusual book and title, may I ask what its about?” “Of course…its about yada yada yada” “Wow…that’s some heavy reading!” And everyone would move along with their day and lives without any cluster-eff.
I guess ultimately my view is I would be pissed yes, but its 15 min of my day. It sucked. I got through it unscathed. Move on.
(awaiting flames of vitriol and rage and anger that I am a mindless idiot or do not understand her plight how all authority is evil or some equally over the top single minded viewpoint)
I agree wholeheartedly. This wasn’t a 8-hours-incommunicado ordeal (the sort that does routinely happen at any Western airport, if you’re not white enough and/or not a tourist). This was a person living close to very hot boundaries (British Muslim woman, politically and socially active, traveling to unstable Muslim country bordering with war-thorn Muslim area controlled by organization famed for recruiting British Muslim women through such border) who was caught in a net that is a bit too tight at the moment, which resulted in a minor annoyance. Watchers are human too.
After the January 2015 attacks in Paris, there’s been a surge in France of purchases of books about Islam and the Muslim world, including annotated versions of the Quran. This was mainly from people who wanted to know what that mess was all about, what Muslim scriptures actually stated. I actually felt proud of my fellow citizens for such an intelligent reaction. I wonder what kind of trouble they’d get into by reading those books in the wrong places. Especially if they look brown-ish.
