I think that is a very fair assessment. Sort of comedy of errors. Certainly not comedic for her. I am sure she was annoyed and aggravated to no end. And it probably felt absolutely awful while going through it. the statement she makes “I was completely innocent and made to feel like a culprit.” is one of anger post-fear. My point to her if I were her husband or friend would be "Yes, they made you feel that way because they were viewing you that way, but how did it end? Did it end with them understanding and apologizing? Did it end with a threat like “watch yourself lady!”
The one thing I do not like here is I feel she has indignation that the Police didn’t understand why she was reading the book or what its content was about. They are cops!!! Why would they have any knowledge or understanding of this text…it looks to the average eye to be some heavy reading about radical islam. To a law enforcement in today’s current climate, that’s sort of a red flag in their minds.
It’s like seeing someone reading some text regarding vivisection and medieval surgery practices…would you think “Oh,that makes sense he must be a Forensic Pathologist.” or do you perhaps think “CREEPY PSYCHO KILLER!!!”
Honestly…most people are going to start thinking Dexter.
Is it right? no. but the behavior fits current norms.
That’s a twisting in so many ways of things I’ve said.
Noting how, in the post-WW II U.S., (Ashkenazi) Jewish people have become white folks is not to conflate Jewish people with those who would murder them, because to say that would be to say that all white people in the U.S. want to kill Jewish people. Which is ridiculous. As is deriving from what I’ve said the claim that “your people” should be “perfect paragons of morality.” White supremacy is a pathology that seeps into all sorts of minds, both victim and victimizer, and I don’t see what’s wrong with a Jewish American like say, Karen Brodkin, acknowledging that she simultaneously embodies both.
I am sorry that my people are not perfect paragons of morality, but I do not feel that that lack gives you the right to single us out for criticism,
What? Abuse of others at the hands of some Jewish people isn’t the only kind of abuse I critique here. You say you’ve had a look at my post history, so surely you can see that.
deny our experiences,
Where did I deny that some Jewish people continue to face abuse?
and conflate us with those who would murder us.
While Jewish people who can be taken as white in the U.S. might face discrimination as Jewish people, that doesn’t mean that as in many other countries, including Israel, they don’t also enjoy the privileges of whiteness. I don’t know why that strikes you as so risible. It doesn’t strike Karen Brodkin and many other Jewish Americans that way, and I do think that showing those white supremacists her book cover, at least, could throw them for a loop and maybe even make them think, which is mostly what I meant by showing it to you.
“Oh, go show the people wanting to murder you this book! That’ll get them to stop!” If denial of the abuse that I live with isn’t how you intended that, then let me be the first to inform you that you failed in your attempts to communicate. Furthermore, I just find it massively implausible that you’d tell any other minority member facing systemic and active abuse to show a book to the people abusing them–and that says alot.
Look, at this point in my interactions with you, it’s become increasingly obvious that you hold the behavior of Jews to a completely different standard than you do any other group, minority or otherwise. You also hold standards of evidence of abuse of Jews to a completely different standard than you do for any other minority group, demanding “reasonably objective sources”. You also turn any and all discussions of Diasporic Jewish experiences into discussions of Israel and its failures as a community. And, when I and others protest these double standards, you accuse us of twisting your words. Which is why, at this point, I have to say that you are not willing or able to discuss Judaism or Jews in good faith or with an open mind.
ProTip: you repeatedly said you empathized, it’s when you only say it once and then say something even remotely unpopular that you get shredded for being unsympathetic
The artwork from the book reminds me of a wonderful exhibit that was at the Autry Museum of Western Heritage (later brought to the Denver Art Museum): the Polish art of Western movie posters. They stripped the Western of its heroism and replaced it with artwork expressing the futility of violence.
This was essentially the only art shop in Poland not subject to censorship, so while describing Western movies, they were also looking inward.
You truly see no difference between being delayed 15 minutes speaking to a police and being raped or being infected with a deadly disease? It’s not as if the woman ended up permanently on a no-fly list, got shot, sent to Guantanamo or something like that. It was a short time inconvenience. I’m sure it would be even more professionally useful if the people responsible for the whole system also got detained and got to experience it first hand.
Oh in general I LOVE propaganda art. Even for bad regimes. It is usually the most free form of expression, trying to get out a concept or idea with out worrying about movements in art.
I got my Mother in Law this cool book that was amazingly well put together, with “clippings” from news papers and under ground papers, showing anti-Nazi and Communist propaganda in Poland from WWII (her father was a literal hero of the Home Army resistance.)
ChuckV made no mention of equivalence, just queried whether bad experiences were necessary to make one a better practitioner of whatever.
I, myself, am puzzled over how you insist that Shaheen’s experience was no big deal after telling us how useful it would be to her job talking to radicalized Muslims “more angry each time they are singled out by the police”. I mean, being singled out by the police for spurious reasons is either a thing or it isn’t, but you don’t seem very sure which. If it’s not a thing, then it shouldn’t have much to do with Shaheen’s job; if it is a thing, then she and we have a perfect right to call it out as a bad thing.
Spirit is terrible as well. They picked the exact wrong examples.
The young lady who was detained seems to have a much more effective strategy that involves a lot less collateral damage.
Maybe if you’re trying to catch them on the plane to Turkey, your intervention is already coming too late?
Does it? How so? And what in the name of Sam Hill Fuck is “the average eye”?
not to say you’re wrong about your main point. 15 minutes is an incredibly short detention, and I totally agree that the security personnel were no doubt bound by process and sent this young lady on her way as quickly as they possibly could.
The point from my perspective, though, is that the stupid busybody on the airplane should never have reported anything in the first place.
I find some people misrepresent the general tenor and/or general consensus on a subject in order to complain about how foolish everyone else is being. Some even psychoanalyze others on the basis of internet comments to this end. Perhaps none of us are immune to this sort of annoying peccadillo.
“if you ask amateurs to act as front-line security personnel, you shouldn’t be surprised when you get amateur security. People don’t need to be reminded to call the police; the slogan is nothing more than an invitation to report people who are different.”
It’s an interesting choice to put what amounts to waitresses/waiters as front line security and then actually treat what they report as a serious intelligence. Not to especially slam flight attendants but I doubt they’ve received that much specialized training in terrorist detection. (Not that I place much faith in the effectiveness of anyone’s training or ability to detect a terrorist.)
If you see something, say something…
Imagine the ratio of signal to noise if truly all of us were to follow this advise.
What kind of slacker terrorist waits until the last minute to read up on the subject, anyway? “Oh, it’s OK. I’ll just cram on the first leg of the flight before I set off the bomb.”
Why, do you have examples of mainstream airlines that are worse than the ones I gave?
A non-Jew lecturing Jews on how to deal with anti-Semitism - how could anyone ever be offended by that?
We take it for granted that when white supremacists obsess over Jews that it is anti-Semitic, but when Christian fundamentalists or people on the political left do it it is supposed to be A-OK. I find the latter far creepier; at least the supremacists are honest and open about it.
If denial of the abuse that I live with isn’t how you intended that, then let me be the first to inform you that you failed in your attempts to communicate. Furthermore, I just find it massively implausible that you’d tell any other minority member facing systemic and active abuse to show a book to the people abusing them–and that says alot.
