How stoned, exactly? You don’t get to specify a precise BAC and then compare it to a nebulous non-value on the other side.
Driving and car culture as a whole is kind of fucked up, as cars are the deadliest thing humanity has ever invented that it’s actually intended to kill people. (Source.) It’s kind of surreal how willing people are to shrug at the yearly automobile death toll, but since our whole society is built around it, for the time being there’s nothing for it but to continue to allow most people to drive.
Which, obviously, does not excuse people knowingly making themselves even more dangerous on the road by driving while impaired. There’s certain risks we have to put up with for society to function, but pushing them even higher without need makes you, yes, an irresponsible fuck.
You don’t get to specify a precise BAC and then compare it to a nebulous non-value on the other side.
I’m not.
How stoned, exactly?
Well, the above-linked article refers to a review of literature on the subject and their prescribed level is: any detectable quantity for every known drug of abuse. Even with this excessively oversized sample (i.e. many non weed smokers) and simple-to-apply base level of intoxication (i.e. any level of stoned). The other studies I’ve linked to before were of users who tested positive to use. So again, any level of stoned.
You also know that’s pretty irrelevant since alcohol consumption feeds alcohol abuse in ways that marijuana consumption does not feed marijuana abuse. At 5pm you probably don’t think you’ll be drinking a bottle of bourbon by the end of the night but, after a number of bourbons the bottom of the bottle becomes the finish line. Marijuana just isn’t like that. You smoke to get to the level you want (or a level at which you can still effectively function) and then you chill there.
The other factor is that you can always get drunker and it’s rare for a drunk person to say “that’s enough” meanwhile most weed smokers make the decision that, at a certain level of high, they’ve had enough. It’s also a drug with a pronounced plateau. Once you’re at a certain point, the only way you can get higher is by smoking different/better weed.
There’s certain risks we have to put up with for society to function
Society has to put up with the increased risks of old people driving because reasons? Society has to put up with the increased risks of being killed in an accident because some people want to selfishly drive 4WDs or SUVs in the city? Those people’s choices, which also unnecessarily endanger others, aren’t questioned on moral grounds, so you’ll excuse me for telling you to fuck right off if you expect me to care.
Lots of things here I’d like sources on, and preferrably not from NORML. All for legslslization , but just not willing to get on the “let’s drive stoned” wagon.
This graph is alligned with my life’s experience , about fifteen years in fire/EMS including collecting statistics on our EMS calls. Alcohol is also responsible for my nastiest anecdotes, from feet burned off in a homeless person’s campfire to dozens of DOAs with GI bleedouts in any mode of temporary housing.
Heroin has the killer reputation and I have seen ODs; I have also seen plenty of paranoids from coke, meth(fubar teeth), and even pot; but alcohol is the go-to death drug even in the heroin soaked Pacific Northwest. I have never seen nor heard of any death that could be attributed to marijuana.
I have a theory that especially alcohol is too often an intentional slow anaesthetized suicide for desperate people who are suffering terribly from a fall outside the cruelly and intentionally undersized societal safety net.
The two studies I have not detailed in this comment are covered in many of my previous comments on here on the matter (ill find a link later) and in this excellent book (where I originally read them):
Unless you can discredit the study to which NORML refers on that page, then their data trumps your skepticism.
I’m guessing your zeal regarding this issue indicates that you drive while high.
Of course I do. I did this morning. I will tomorrow morning. I also have an appreciation for objectivity and massive distain for social norms that are not based upon objectivity.
From what I understand, meth is not much more addictive than alcohol, and less so than heroin and nicotine. (Admittedly, alcohol is considered more addictive than cocaine, but still.)
Meth was legal until the 1970s and was commonly used by people who needed to stay awake, like long-haul truckers, and for weight loss. Lots of folks did okay. I’m kind of with the “legalize it all, educate people, and let them use at their own risk” school of thought even for something like that.
…Yeah, neither of those things is at all true. I’ve known plenty of both smokers and drinkers who indulge until they’re where they want to be and then stop (I do, in both cases). And I’ve known plenty of both who will polish off anything you put in front of them until they barely know their own names.
We’ve built a society where, outside of major cities, you pretty much need a car to work and to get food for yourself. That sucks, but it’s not within any individual’s power to change.
So your root argument is that, because other people endanger lives (necessarily or otherwise), it’s okay for you to endanger lives further for shits and giggles. All right, everyone knows where everyone stands. I think we’re done here.
I, for a time, partied regularly at the final W S Burroughs estate… Seen the bullet holes in the walls. The penis shaped landscaping in the backyard is particularly interesting. Very pleasant company there. Albeit, a bit pretentious, I recommend visiting.
Probably due to the risk of dehydration. Let me ask you this. Have you ever smoked mdma vs meth? Mdma is by far more dissociative and inebriating. Whereas meth is not. I’m talking about one offs and not habitual use. One can lose track of time and space rather quickly with MDMA. It’s neurotoxicity is also much higher. Anything over 100mg and you are risking some form of neurological damage. The swing in serotonin levels is too much for your receptors to maintain their structure.
I know of at least one case where a man intravenously injected 2g of pure MDMA… Tragically, he did not survive. Not to downplay meth. You’d probably have the same result with methamphetamine.
I believe CO proposed on site mouth swab drug testing for recent drug use in DUI stops. This I believe is a much better alternative to the blood test. I find it to be a very risky endeavor to smoke and drive. Especially, considering the potency of some strains. I have experienced immediate impairment from a hit of marijuana that necessitated I, in the immortal words of Snoop Dogg, “back up off of it and set my cup down”. Literally, incapable of holding a cup. Let alone maintain an upright posture. I’m not really a big advocate for impaired driving.
It wouldnt surprise me, I think the greater risk with meth is the lifestyle rather than the actual physical effects. There is the cardio risk but that pretty much needs pairing with a congenital defect. There is meth teeth but I believe that is from the grinding and dry mouth. Alone most speedy drugs would be be pharma-junkfood if a reliable dose and purity were available over the counter, when is the last time you heard of someone die or even suffer anything other than overheating from of a handful of Rx Adderall?
Who is smoking 1% thc-a content marijuana??? I haven’t seen anything under 17% in any of the dispensaries. As well, HASH is now typically around 60-70%. BHO tops the chart at about +90%.
There’s no amount of weed I could consume that’d incapacitate me that much.
I can be as stoned as I can get, and still have better situational awareness and reaction times than most drivers…
+1 for a test that measures actual ability rather than some arbitrary concentration of whatever… and for those who can’t even pass it when sober, diddums and good riddance.
