Obama: “How many Texas Governors does it take to regulate a nursing home? BOOM! Fertilizer Plant!”
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Obama: “I’m glad the Gov added name cards on the table, so he doesn’t confuse me anymore with the waiter”.
Obama “knock knock”
Perry “who’s there”?
Obama “Alamo”
Perry “Alamo who?”
Obama "you said NEVER FORGET! ".
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I read Kimmo’s response:
And thought, “That seems like jumping to conclusions.” Then I looked at the photo again. Four adults in the room, three smiling one frowning, so I guess you’re kind of walking like a duck here.
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Is this one of those posts where you reply to someone but that doesn’t show up because you’re also quoting someone else?
I assume you’re addressing booksoup101.
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One of these guys has Reaganesque optimism. The other shows everything grumpy about the GOP today.
I was. What a mess. I edited in the quotation, that should make things clearer.
Umm, sorry, but NO. Flat out LIE. What you say is a reason for people to leave their countries. However, why are they coming here? The word has spread! First, you will likely NOT be deported. Second, you possibly get amnesty and become a US citizen!
If the borders were closed and nobody could get over here, they would soon give up trying.
I do absolutely agree that in some countries in Central America, that conditions are bad. Some of is probably the fault of the US for our “War on Drugs.” If the US government wants to help such people, maybe helping their countries would be a MUCH better approach. Help those countries, help all citizens in those countries. Instead, help a few immigrants, and the rest of the people in that country are no better off.
I am absolutely NOT against immigration. I have three daughters adopted from Haiti and a brother-in-law from India. However, all of my immigrant relatives FOLLOWED THE LAW. I had to fill out the paperwork and pay thousands of dollars for green cards for my daughters. I would welcome some people from other countries. Here are my concerns:
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People who come over the border illegally – their FIRST ACT in the US is to break the law. If given a choice of a person who breaks the law and one who goes to an embassy, fills out the paperwork, and tries to do everything legally, I will choose the 2nd. One has already PROVEN that they do not mind breaking the law. The other has already PROVEN that they are willing to OBEY the law.
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The borders are projected flooded with TENS OF THOUSANDS of illegal immigrants (52,000 children in the last year, not including adults). Many of these children are unaccompanied. Have you thought about the economic impact if these people stay? I am guessing here, but I would imagine that most have a minimal to no understanding of English, and many of adults have a chance of being unskilled. This means that of the adults, many are not ready for the job market here. And the children are certainly not going to be able to work, since they will need to go to school. Of the 52,000 children, how many are going to need to be placed in homes? Where will they live? If they go to foster homes, the states pay the foster families – who pays for that? I would imagine that most of them will need heavy ESL (English as a Second Language) classes, and local schools would likely need a LOT of help meeting their needs. I would imagine that a reasonable percentage of these people would need public assistance, which costs taxpayer (you and me) money. One more thing: how many of these people have criminal records? Since there is no paperwork, we simply do not know.
As I said, I would LIKE to help these people. However, sending humanitarian assistance to their home countries seems like a MUCH better bet.
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Oh, and for the record: children coming to the U.S. who go to school with English-speaking kids start picking up English within weeks. It’s actually pretty amazing to witness how quickly language acquisition works for kids. That’s not even taking into consideration the fact that these children wouldn’t be hearing their native language at home because they wouldn’t be living with their own families.
And which is it: are they children who aren’t even old enough to work, or “people” with criminal records? Or do you think there’s a rash of violent criminals in the under-13 crowd?
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Perry: It was just the chair…
I blame that crazy lady with the sign reading
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
“Lady Liberty” indeed. More like Lady Liberal.
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At least I listed SOME qualifications. You listed none. How do I know that you have any experience with kids at all? You could be an ESL teacher with 30 years of experience. You could be a 14-year-old kid in his basement. Welcome to the anonymity of the internet. Should I just assume that everybody is an expert? At least I have SOME experience and listed it.
Yup. Just like that. So, I have some experience in this…
But my children had an advantage in that, coming from an orphanage, they saw pictures of their new parents at least a year before the adoption was finalized. They knew where they were going WAY in advance and had time to emotionally prepare themselves. I admit that this is not MUCH of an advantage, but it is as advantage. Also, my wife and I were not FOSTER parents, we were real parents. We were (and still are) committed 100% to being successful parents. Simply stated, “we try harder.” We had some rough spots, but never gave up. Do you think that an unaccompanied minor in foster care is going to have the same advantage?
Fine. Like I said, I SUPPORT immigration, but for those that OBEY THE LAW! Is that really so hard to understand? Do you think that we need more people from Guatemala? Congress should approve more visas! That would not be that hard to do.
By the way, that quote in on a statue at Ellis Island, where immigrants stood in line to get their paperwork processed.
Here is what I have a problem with. Suppose that there are TWO people in Guatemala, or some country where things are very bad.
Person A decides to break the law and illegally enter the country.
Person B decides that they would LIKE to leave, but respect the law and do not want to break it to enter the US.
Sorry, but I feel a LOT worse for person B than I do for person A. If I decided to let 100,000 immigrants into the country (which is FINE with me, by the way), I would want the person who OBEYS the law. Granting amnesty just seems like rewarding people who do the wrong thing, and punishing those who try to do the right thing.
I am a big fan of fairness and rewarding those people who try to do the right thing. I remember showing up to Toys R Us a few years ago on Black Friday and standing in line waiting for the doors to open. Once the doors opened, a bunch of people jumped the line and got in first. So, the people that broke the rules got the best deals, and the people who were standing in line for three hours got screwed.
I like to think that life should be as fair as possible. Life isn’t fair. I get it. Some people are born rich, others poor. Some are naturally athletic, others are born with disabilities. However, the government should not actively encourage unfairness. The guy who speeds gets there faster, but the one obeying the speed limit does not get a speeding ticket. Government should reward those who honestly TRY to do the right thing. Amnesty, to me, sound like giving a speeding ticket to the guy who followed the speed limit – the ones who tried to do the right thing get punished.
Actually the statue and the accompanying plaque are on Liberty Island, not Ellis Island.
Also, the immigrants who lined up to get their paperwork processed at Ellis Island faced a very different set of hurdles than immigrants today. Back then you could basically put your family on a boat in Europe and start the process to apply for residence and eventual citizenship after you got here, even if you were impoverished and unskilled and didn’t speak the language.
I’d prefer everyone who moves here to do so legally, but I know that’s never going to happen with the legal barriers we have in place today. A parent desperate to get their kids out of a dangerous environment isn’t likely to spend years filing paperwork for an uncertain outcome.
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Law is Good. Worship the Law.
…and meanwhile…
Oh, yes, Good reason to ignore ALL laws. What is your address? I would love to stop by and help myself to some of your belongings while you are away. It sounds like you should be OK with that, right?
It is good to know that you at least agree with me that this country needs a lot fewer laws and regulations. Most people around here would disagree with you, and think that the government should do a lot more to crack down on this and that.
As a licensed ESL instructor and teacher of graduate and undergraduate classes for how to help ESL students in mainstream classrooms for the state of PA, I have to explain that this is a common misconception and that most people also do not understand the difference between BICS (basic interpersonal communication skills) and CALP (cognitive academic language proficiency). We have quite a lot of research that shows that children actually learn language slower than adults, especially academic language. We just think they are learning it faster because they have less vocabulary to learn.
Since many younger learns pick up BICS at a quicker pace, they are exited too quickly from ESL programs (or they were not even receiving ESL classes or pull out) and teachers are confused as to why the students academic language isn’t moving as quickly. ESL students are 5x more likely to be recommended for special education programs, not do to actual cognitive or learning issues, but actually due to the fact that they haven’t had time to properly learn the language. It takes an average of five years to get working mastery of BICS, but with ESL students we are also including CALP. This can be overwhelming.
People also don’t realize that with language acquisition there are four domains: reading, writing, spoken and listening. All of these develop at different rates. So you may have a student that is great at speaking and listening but their reading and writing is lacking. Teachers and schools don’t get it, refer students or just think “they’re lazy”.
If students picked up English as rapidly as the myths that surround them we probably wouldn’t be having the major issue of having nearly half of our ESL students (nation wide) end up dropping out of school by the age of 16.
I recommend reading Linguistic Diversity and Teaching, by Nancy L. Commins & Ofelia B. Miramontes. And plenty of other books and articles that I have.
I know this is all off topic, but I am passionate about ELLs and making sure the issues surrounding them are addressed and understood.
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Obama: “…assholesaywhat…”
Perry: “For the TENTH TIME… what?”
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It’s not off-topic at all! I was speaking of BICS not CALP, since I was responding to a general fear-based poster rather than someone who was truly concerned about the ability of these children to learn up to their potential in a new country, but it’s really good to get the complete picture.
